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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #431
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by MC.no.spin View Post
    I'd like to get that figured clarified - I was just listening to Rush and he said the figure is 2% of your income or $2,000 a year, which ever is greater. That is all I know about it.
    No, from what I see, if an employer doesn't cover his employees, he pays a $2000.00 per year per employee fine minus some deductions.

    The individual fine is $695.00 per year.

    That's my impression now. I am still trying to sort through it because, as I said, the language is very thick and its hard to understand. Some of it seems to even double back and contradict itself.

    It's gonna take me a couple of days sorting through it before I can safely say I have a firm understanding of what's in it.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    It paves the way for perfect inelasticty.
    I don't see it.



    And the private market will be far better off with such people off of their risk pool.
    Only if the risk can be absorbed, currently it cannot.



    We have a winner. The second biggest determinant in health care inflation. Are you familiar with medical tourism?
    Absolutely, it's not a problem when it's paid for, huge problem when indigents cross the boarders.



    Agreed! What are your views on shifting the remaining high risk individuals to the government?
    It's tricky. In another thread C.C. and I were talking about a true public option. It would have to be completely voluntary, with an opt out, the program would have to be self funded by members, and it would have to follow all rules other insurers do. I think under a plan like that for basic services high risk individuals could easily be covered.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  3. #433
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    In another thread C.C. and I were talking about a true public option. It would have to be completely voluntary, with an opt out, the program would have to be self funded by members, and it would have to follow all rules other insurers do. I think under a plan like that for basic services high risk individuals could easily be covered.
    Yup, I've stated many times that I wouldn't have the slightest issue with the government creating a TRUE public option. One that is paid for solely by those who elect to use it.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by satandog View Post
    Looks like the market is doing OK at this point. Dow up about 45 at 2pm. Maybe they have not heard yet.
    LOL! It's been up and down all day and irratic, besides, I already said it could go up until the major portions of this bill kick in, but that if it's a bubble it will burst hard.
    Reading is fundamental.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, from what I see, if an employer doesn't cover his employees, he pays a $2000.00 per year per employee fine minus some deductions.

    The individual fine is $695.00 per year.

    That's my impression now. I am still trying to sort through it because, as I said, the language is very thick and its hard to understand. Some of it seems to even double back and contradict itself.

    It's gonna take me a couple of days sorting through it before I can safely say I have a firm understanding of what's in it.
    It's my understanding that the fine is either $695. or 2.5% of taxable income, whichever is greater.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    It's my understanding that the fine is either $695. or 2.5% of taxable income, whichever is greater.
    It may be. Like I said, the language is pretty thick.

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    Why so serious?

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by chosendudenyc View Post
    Under the Bush Administration, those 8 straight years, our Constitution was void and abused to push conservative agenda's and policies. Few said anything.


    How dare you state that anything unproven, unlike the Bush Administration succession of voiding our Constitution for 8 straight years, from the Obama Administration needs to be criticized and seen unlawful?
    Lots of hyperbolic partisan hackery in your post, with zero substance.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    It's my understanding that the fine is either $695. or 2.5% of taxable income, whichever is greater.
    That was nice of them. I am eligible for this fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    You guys are weird.

  9. #439
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    It's my understanding that the fine is either $695. or 2.5% of taxable income, whichever is greater.
    I came across Denninger's take. He can be a bit hyper-reactive, but he usually seems to hit the major points fairly accurately:

    And yes, I've read the Health Bill. Both the 2,000+ page original and The House changes as voted upon.
    Here's the bottom line:
    If you refuse to buy health insurance, you will be fined on a sliding scale that amounts to 2% of your AGI. So if you make $100,000 a year, you could be fined $2,000 for "refusing" to buy insurance.

    You cannot buy a catastrophic policy any more. The "cheapest" acceptable policy will cost somewhere around $15,000 for a single person, and over $20,000 for a family. This is, for most people, more than five times the maximum possible fine - each and every year. The law makes it effectively impossible to maintain an existing catastrophic policy as they "renew" every year, and should any change be made you are then forced to buy something "acceptable" in the law (or pay the fine.)

    When the "pre-existing condition" bar comes down you cannot be charged more or denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

    I fully expect 20-50% premium increases immediately, and for the next three years sequentially, in all existing policies. This is precisely what the banks did in front of the CARD act becoming effective, and it will happen here as well. That is the cause of the short-term rocket shot in the health-related stocks this morning.

    In addition the capital gains tax changes will do severe damage to capital formation immediately, and these changes will become especially severe starting in 2014. The market will anticipate these changes and react accordingly, although you certainly wouldn't know it today.
    Ok, this one's easy.
    When the fines and pre-existing coverage "stop-out" go into effect (now for kids, in a couple of years for the rest) drop all coverage for those affected.
    Why?
    Because:
    The fine is 1/5th or less the cost of the "insurance."

    Health Care: Arbitrage Obama And The Dems - The Market Ticker
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  10. #440
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    I've read through the bill a little bit, and while I don't know it as thoroughly or in-depth as some people here do, there are certainly things I like and that I don't like. For instance, I like the fact that insurance companies can't deny people for pre-existing conditions. I think it's downright criminal the way that they try to deny people coverage now. I realize it's a business, but people need the help that insurance provides and when it is being worked with the credo of "save money and we don't care who we screw over to do so", I think things need to change.

    One thing I definitely do take issue with, is the fact that people are going to be penalized for not having insurance. People should have the right to do what they want as far as their health care is concerned. I think a lot of the language right now in the health care bill is pretty extreme and people are freaking out because it's such a dramatic difference from what we have now. Change can be terrifying, and I'm hoping this doesn't end up biting us in the ass, which very easily could happen.

    Considering that this is a totally new approach at health care, I think much of it will be fairly hit or miss and hope that as time goes on things will be improved so that it can be a compromise for everyone.

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