Page 42 of 114 FirstFirst ... 3240414243445292 ... LastLast
Results 411 to 420 of 1136

Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #411
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So you think that because you asked a few supporters, every single one in the universe knows nothing? That's a fallacy.
    The supporters, I've encountered, don't know jack crap about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    And can you tell us what's in the bill, beyond talking points? Right now?
    What would you like to know about it?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  2. #412
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Honestly, what I find most astounding is how populist rhetoric about how "them evil insurance companies are to blame" is what drove support for this bill yet the bill requires you to buy insurance from "them evil insurance companies" or pay a fine to the tune of $695.00 a year.

    Does anyone else see the total implosion of logic here?
    Yes. Except the bill also contains curbs on many of the insurance practices those complaints were about, such as pre-existing condition restrictions.

  3. #413
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,254

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    How does this bill correct this?? It doesn't. What it does is add millions more to the Medicaid roles, creating more inflation.
    Come on..... Aging populations, constricted industry entry, obesity, tobacco etc....

    Additional doctors probably won't decrease health costs, but more patients along with fewer doctors will certainly greatly increase wait times to get into doctor's offices.


    More doctors equal more competition.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That’s because 20 percent of patients account for 80 percent of spending, and that 20 percent is made up mostly of the chronically ill. These patients are often sick with multiple conditions—such as diabetes, heart disease, and high blood pressure—and more than half of the money we devote to caring for them is spent when they are in the hospital. People who are sick enough to be hospitalized are generally too ill to be insisting on certain tests or procedures.
    Why Does Health Care Cost So Much?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #414
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The supporters, I've encountered, don't know jack crap about it.
    How many out of the millions and millions of supporters out there have you encountered?

    What would you like to know about it?
    Whatever you think supporters should know. Right now. Don't Google it either.

  5. #415
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    How many out of the millions and millions of supporters out there have you encountered?
    The people that come here to debate, should know what they are debating about.
    Running their mouths off because it's "historic", "Punishing insurance companies", and all that other nonsense does not suffice.

    You(not you specifically) want to come here and make claims of it's greatness, you better be able to back it up with facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Whatever you think supporters should know. Right now. Don't Google it either.
    That a lot of the savings come from the student loan reform inserted into it, that the doc fix(that was taken out) will remove those savings(once it is passed later), how about the funding to minority colleges inserted in the bill.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #416
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The people that come here to debate, should know what they are debating about.
    Running their mouths off because it's "historic", "Punishing insurance companies", and all that other nonsense does not suffice.

    You(not you specifically) want to come here and make claims of it's greatness, you better be able to back it up with facts.
    I agree.

    That a lot of the savings come from the student loan reform inserted into it, that the doc fix(that was taken out) will remove those savings(once it is passed later), how about the funding to minority colleges inserted in the bill.
    That's what you think is essential about this bill? Really? Those are things everyone must know in order to debate?

    How does the bill work? Describe the basics, in 100 words or less.
    Last edited by misterman; 03-22-10 at 03:25 PM.

  7. #417
    Sage
    lizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    between two worlds
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,581

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Or...... And this is a novel idea. Having a more healthy society will in fact decrease quantity demanded (regardless of elasticity). Adequate health coverage plays a major role.
    A large segment of people in this society don't want to be healthy. Being unhealthy, thus being dependent and needy, especially when it gets a monthly check, is an adequate living for some people. Our society has become so morally bankrupt that we reward the unproductive off the backs of the productive. We are dealing with much more than funding healthcare here. We are dealing with a population that is morally and spiritually (not in the religious sense) devoid of reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You are arguing based on emotion and ideology.
    This entire effing legislation is based on emotion and ideology.

    Many of the sick in our society love their illness. It gives meaning to their lives, and is the reason for their existence. This is as much a mental/psychological problem as a financial one.
    Last edited by lizzie; 03-22-10 at 03:26 PM.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  8. #418
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,254

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Any impact it has would be lessened by reducing the COSTS of healthcare because then, bankruptcies would decrease. But the bill just passed does not help to decrease costs. It only adds more of the same that increased the ****ing costs to begin with.
    And yet you failed to address my question.

    All I can say to this is,
    On the contrary, you are the one crying about being forced to purchase insurance.

    Because I don't give a flying **** about externalities.
    I don't care if you give a ****. They exist and can severely effect markets. Therefore you cannot expect to give a quality analysis without taking into consideration market failure.

    Scarcity has nothing to do with it since healthcare is far from scarce.
    Everything is scare

    They are not the US.
    Blanket statements about "government care" only apply to the US now? Fascinating.

    No, the chief causes of higher costs are govt involvement, insurance companies and malpractice suits.
    Right. And markets always self correct, government always does it wrong, and insurance companies do not provide a legitimate service.

    Uh, no. That's not the way to decrease health care costs. WTF?
    That is what you have been arguing for....

    Incorrect, I'm arguing from the side of knowledge and experience. Having worked in the medical field, for an insurance company, for the government AND been a consumer. Not to mention research. So no, no ideology here since I don't subscribe to any 'ideology'. And no emotion based argument either.

    It's a fact that when people are given something for "free", they abuse the **** out of it. Medicaid, Medicare are prime examples of this. Go to an ER on any given night and you will see prime examples of this.

    A healthy society will certainly reduce health care USAGE. But giving everyone Medicaid and/or forcing them to buy insurance they don't want isn't going to make them healthier. Plus, you're only talking about a fraction of the population that isn't insured. What is it, +/- 12%? 85% or so of the population IS insured and yet you somehow think that if the remaining 12% or so get insured the costs are going to plummet? Gimme a break.
    You could have fooled me. All you have presented me with are normative rants without any positive support. You are going to have to do much better.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  9. #419
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    A large segment of people in this society don't want to be healthy. Being unhealthy, thus being dependent and needy, especially when it gets a monthly check, is an adequate living for some people. Our society has become so morally bankrupt that we reward the unproductive off the backs of the productive. We are dealing with much more than funding healthcare here. We are dealing with a population that is morally and spiritually (not in the religious sense) devoid of reality.



    This entire effing legislation is based on emotion and ideology.

    Many of the sick in our society love their illness. It gives meaning to their lives, and is the reason for their existence. This is as much a mental/psychological problem as a financial one.
    Wow.............

  10. #420
    Guru
    USA_1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    BANNED
    Last Seen
    04-16-11 @ 02:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,142

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Bill passes. Nixon would have been thrilled:

    http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stor...-proposal.aspx
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

Page 42 of 114 FirstFirst ... 3240414243445292 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •