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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #401
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The rub is that the hypocratic oath is non-binding, so unless a state law requires medical providers to give access during an emergency it really is an unquantifiable factor, as it would depend solely on the providers will to give healthcare at a loss. Don't know which way this factor would swing to be honest.
    It paves the way for perfect inelasticty.

    I see this as potentially abused more than any other entitlement, if anything demand will exceed supply. For instance my mother works in the charity system here, she sees people who will not take generics and are constant "customers" because they aren't paying, these people will be on the public option eventually when the scum in Washington makes adjustments, so Louisiana's problem is about to become a national one.
    And the private market will be far better off with such people off of their risk pool.

    Not necessarily, again, risk is so skewed right now to actually get the situation right would require around 3-4 decades of slowly peeling back the internal problems. Such as eliminating national medical school caps on enrollment, tort reform, etc.
    We have a winner. The second biggest determinant in health care inflation. Are you familiar with medical tourism?

    If the heavy regulations are appropriate I agree, however many of the regulations on my industry are not only a band-aid on a bullet wound, they miss the wound itself.
    Agreed! What are your views on shifting the remaining high risk individuals to the government?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Well why would they do that when half the people arguing this topic haven't bothered to even read the bill? Admittedly I haven't finished it...barely made a dent in it. These are just issues I've seen with what I have read so far.

    And it's slow going. The language is...thick. It practically needs translation at certain points. LOL
    I think rathi made the best point.

    This bill is nothing but "style over substance."
    Supporters can't tell you what is in it.
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Supporters can't tell you what is in it.
    That's ridiculous.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    That sounds like about two to three personal attacks right there. Hope you don't have money in the stock market, or mutual funds, or anything indexed.
    Looks like the market is doing OK at this point. Dow up about 45 at 2pm. Maybe they have not heard yet.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    That's ridiculous.



    What's in it?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    That's ridiculous.
    I've asked and asked with no response.
    The best I've heard is talking points.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I think rathi made the best point.

    This bill is nothing but "style over substance."
    Supporters can't tell you what is in it.
    Honestly, what I find most astounding is how populist rhetoric about how "them evil insurance companies are to blame" is what drove support for this bill yet the bill requires you to buy insurance from "them evil insurance companies" or pay a fine to the tune of $695.00 a year.

    Does anyone else see the total implosion of logic here?

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I've asked and asked with no response.
    The best I've heard is talking points.
    So you think that because you asked a few supporters, every single one in the universe knows nothing? That's a fallacy.

    And can you tell us what's in the bill, beyond talking points? Right now?

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Honestly, what I find most astounding is how populist rhetoric about how "them evil insurance companies are to blame" is what drove support for this bill yet the bill requires you to buy insurance from "them evil insurance companies" or pay a fine to the tune of $695.00 a year.

    Does anyone else see the total implosion of logic here?
    Talking points + people who vote because of emotion = success!
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  10. #410
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You are not everyone. I would like you to answer a question: What impact does medical bankruptcy have on the pricing mechanism for health care?
    Any impact it has would be lessened by reducing the COSTS of healthcare because then, bankruptcies would decrease. But the bill just passed does not help to decrease costs. It only adds more of the same that increased the ****ing costs to begin with.

    Not everywhere. You are still missing the point. Not everyone has the money to restore their home in an orderly fashion in the event of a fire. Which is why insurance is so heavily demanded in a developed economy. If they do not have the money and let it sit there in shambles it will impact my life.
    All I can say to this is,

    You neglected to comment on externalities.
    Because I don't give a flying **** about externalities.


    Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant. In order to understand how markets function, you have to consider the most basic premise: scarcity. Given the pricing mechanism, what is the relationship to scarcity?
    Scarcity has nothing to do with it since healthcare is far from scarce.


    Why does that not correspond to other nations?
    They are not the US.


    Given the inelasticity of health care demand, your comment could not be more off base. The chief cause of health care inflation is an aging population. Are you aware of how the "market" achieves equilibrium?
    No, the chief causes of higher costs are govt involvement, insurance companies and malpractice suits.


    Not in the business of arguing opinions. You are completely fumbling the cost side of the equation because you are unaware of health care demand. Under your premise; the only way to decrease costs is to decrease quantity demand (invoking a shortage).
    Uh, no. That's not the way to decrease health care costs. WTF?

    Where is a good ole supply side solution when you need one? Increase the supply of doctors and the cost of health care falls. Or...... And this is a novel idea. Having a more healthy society will in fact decrease quantity demanded (regardless of elasticity). Adequate health coverage plays a major role.

    You are arguing based on emotion and ideology.
    Incorrect, I'm arguing from the side of knowledge and experience. Having worked in the medical field, for an insurance company, for the government AND been a consumer. Not to mention research. So no, no ideology here since I don't subscribe to any 'ideology'. And no emotion based argument either.

    It's a fact that when people are given something for "free", they abuse the **** out of it. Medicaid, Medicare are prime examples of this. Go to an ER on any given night and you will see prime examples of this.

    A healthy society will certainly reduce health care USAGE. But giving everyone Medicaid and/or forcing them to buy insurance they don't want isn't going to make them healthier. Plus, you're only talking about a fraction of the population that isn't insured. What is it, +/- 12%? 85% or so of the population IS insured and yet you somehow think that if the remaining 12% or so get insured the costs are going to plummet? Gimme a break.
    Last edited by rivrrat; 03-22-10 at 03:08 PM.

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