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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #351
    Goddess of Bacon

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    But she opts out of her plan entirely because I have her and our kids on my plan.

    So does she get to opt out, or does she get fined for not participating. Do I have to take her off of my plan? Must we have different plans altogether?
    I'm sure there will be a bloated government committee designed to answer that very question. They'll get back to you in... oh.... 3 years or so.

  2. #352
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, that should tell your employer something. heheh

    But yeah, this bill is nothing more than a play towards the insurance companies. It will do nothing to benefit the People.
    I am my employer.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #353
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I'm sure there will be a bloated government committee designed to answer that very question. They'll get back to you in... oh.... 3 years or so.
    I recall there being a new arm of the bureaucracy created to administer this mess.

    Government flunkies gotta eat too, y'know ...

  4. #354
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    We were never attacked by terrorists.
    Re-writing the Bush legacy.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  5. #355
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Not true, it's a risk pool, the reason group insurance is so expensive is because the least healthy in the pool skew the risk model towards the sub-standard end of the spectrum. Even if you have a full contributory policy, it is costing someone alot of money.
    Yes but the larger the pool, the greater (typically) the decrease in the standard deviation of individual required costs. Certain pools that consist of too high of risk (pre-existing) members can then be subsidized in an effort to contain prices in this particular demographic.

    Correct, but you don't add risk to save money. Forcing people into health rolls artificially with no gap-loss possibility will shock the system, I am not a fan of pre-existing conditions.......but, if time was to be allotted for absorbtion of risk slowly it would be a better solution.
    Which is why subsidization is necessary. Consider the highest risk pool: elderly Americans.

    Also correct, which is also a problem with overconsumption of the group model, healthier people should go individual, however group has recieved preference through the years and it has skewed data to unrecognizable figures.
    Which i believe comes with the emergence of massive HMO coverage. Not even that i am against the concept; but they have truly overstepped there boundary.

    Eh, if someone can pay cash for care or can work out payment plans more power to them. I still say they should have a major med. policy or figure out a plan to absorb the risk. But I am a fan of choice.
    I am a fan of choice as well. But not when other peoples choices begin to negatively effect me and my country. A person who can afford while choosing not to faces far greater risk of bankruptcy. Of all the truly wealthy people i know who can afford $100,000 + surgery, not one of them does not have adequate medical coverage.

    Need solid examples, every plan is different.
    Classic example: Policies that do not cover invasive procedures without the use of anesthesia (defensive). What if that person is being advised by their physician to get a liver biopsy? We are talking $5,000 out of pocket. If something severe goes untreated, we are talking potentially 10 or 20 times the liability.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  6. #356
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    **** you, that's why! Why should you tell me what to do with my money? Why should you force me to play your game? If I could afford the rip off which is health insurance, I still don't need it. There is a real problem, the real problem is that America pays more for heath care and has the least access to it than any other industrialized country out there. This bill doesn't address the problem, it merely forces me to play in a corrupt game. Thanks for spending my money for me, but I think I knew better how to use it.
    Me? OK.

    Health Care for America shouldn't be seen as a "game". Many people have died because of being turned away due to having preexisting health conditions. Many people have died because they couldn't afford the existing system without reform.

    Sure, no one wants to focus their attacks and attention on the many people in America that has died (and will) due to not having health care, however it's easy to call a voting congressman /woman N***** along with our president. Where is your anger concerning this matter Sir?


    It's OK to voice your displeasure and type your anger over what "game" is being played, yet I do not read any words indicating why health care needed to be reformed. In hopes, people can finally afford health care insurance so they will not have to die because they cannot.



    If you are a human being, you need health care because the human body isn't meant to go without some kind of duress.

    If you truly want to complain, do it to those congressmen and women who protested and didn't vote for this reform. Complain to those law makers that made even this version of health care reform so nearly impossible for succession.

    Complain in why the Bush Administration did not dare touch health care reform when collectively they knew, many Americans were dying each day without it.

    No one said the bill was perfect; I do not blame the president. I would have kept Abortion funding in given its a law. However, I understand taking away from something you hold dear for the greater good, is doing the noble thing. And this is what the president had to do to please people like you.

    I applaud new health care reform that will save lives. Our economy will improve. Hopefully all I lives will also.
    I am this country's true optimist; opulent of Americanism and humane empathy. My leadership and progressive politic will be this nation's mountain top. Equality and solidarity... the dream will indeed be fully emulated. I will be America’s foundation. -Me.

  7. #357
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by chosendudenyc View Post
    Many people have died because of being turned away due to having preexisting health conditions. Many people have died because they couldn't afford the existing system without reform.
    How many have died?

  8. #358
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Yes but the larger the pool, the greater (typically) the decrease in the standard deviation of individual required costs. Certain pools that consist of too high of risk (pre-existing) members can then be subsidized in an effort to contain prices in this particular demographic.
    The problem I see with that is we are an aging demographic, I could see this argument having merit if for every person attaining age 45+ we saw 4 births, unfortunately it's about a 1:3 ratio right now if my memory is correct. This follows that the model will skew towards higher risk classes.



    Which is why subsidization is necessary. Consider the highest risk pool: elderly Americans.
    I have a major problem with subsidation under this bill, nothing in it fixes problems, they will get worse.



    Which i believe comes with the emergence of massive HMO coverage. Not even that i am against the concept; but they have truly overstepped there boundary.
    I hate HMO's, they are among the worst coverage models ever concieved, while there are a few decent ones, they are horribly mismanaged.



    I am a fan of choice as well. But not when other peoples choices begin to negatively effect me and my country. A person who can afford while choosing not to faces far greater risk of bankruptcy. Of all the truly wealthy people i know who can afford $100,000 + surgery, not one of them does not have adequate medical coverage.
    I agree, part of a good business or individual budget model is risk prevention. Again, other people's problems are ours because of prior government interference.



    Classic example: Policies that do not cover invasive procedures without the use of anesthesia (defensive). What if that person is being advised by their physician to get a liver biopsy? We are talking $5,000 out of pocket. If something severe goes untreated, we are talking potentially 10 or 20 times the liability.
    I've seen those types of stipulations in bad models, then again what I love about being independent is that I don't have to sell that kind of garbage. I'm not saying that insurers are completely innocent, or that the bad ones shouldn't be held accountable, but it isn't a standard practice.....at least in this region.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #359
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Freedom of choice regarding how I spend my own money that *I* make IS a good thing. Freedom for me to decide for myself what is best for ME and my health care IS a good thing. Freedom for me to choose whether or not I wish to buy a private sector product IS a good thing. Freedom for me to take that same money that would otherwise go into a black hole and instead invest it wisely and see a return on that investment IS a good thing.
    We are not here to have a heart to heart about our feelings. Risk management is vital to all aspects of industry. And if your choices effect others???

    Health Insurance is part of the reason FOR the high costs. How the **** can adding more health insurance ever hope to decrease costs?
    Proper (this is key) risk management models do not typically increase the long run costs of any industry they are used in. Making poor health decisions, not possessing coverage when you can afford it, abusing ER, aging population, etc... have a greater impact on skyrocketing costs of health care. These issues need to be addressed first. Requiring everyone pay their own way is a juvenile thing to say given the nature of health care demand....

    Of course it's acceptable to choose not to purchase a private sector product. It's perfectly acceptable to not be fined just for being alive.
    If my neighbor does not carry proper home owners insurance and his home burns down....... It will effect the value of my home while incurring both implicit and explicit costs....

    The patient pays them. See, this is how it *should* be. No govt involvement. No insurance. Just the doctor, and the patient. Period. Costs would drop dramatically.
    Awwwww..... And people shouldn't be murdered. You are aware that given such a system, everyone would not be able to cover the costs of the services they demand to stay alive. Again a juvenile way of looking at the situation.

    Insurance, govt, and malpractice are what have raised the costs of healthcare.
    No.... Fat people, tobacco use, and a general disregard for healthy living (until it is too late) have much greater impact. You are in no position to make such analysis given the cost of US health care comparatively, along with double digit increases, childhood obesity, etc....
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #360
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    How many have died?
    Round 45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance. Research released this week in the American Journal of Public Health estimates that 45,000 deaths per year in the United States are associated with the lack of health insurance. If a person is uninsured, "it means you're at mortal risk," said one of the authors, Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.

    45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance - CNN.com
    I am this country's true optimist; opulent of Americanism and humane empathy. My leadership and progressive politic will be this nation's mountain top. Equality and solidarity... the dream will indeed be fully emulated. I will be America’s foundation. -Me.

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