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Health Care Bill has passed

reefedjib said:
Nobody has anything to say about my question here? WHere are all the solutions? Or are you just in the habit of criticizing? I think I know the answer....
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I'm going to take a wild guess here as to why you've not heard a lot on this.

One, that's not the topic of this thread. This is discussing THIS health care bill that passed.

Two, there are numerous threads that have discussed republican alternatives. Some focused, some as asides. Its hardly a new topic and its unlikely taht people are going to jump to a question about it in a thread where its not really the topic and has no baring on the topic.

Which takes me to three, republican options are pointless right now. Republicans have had alternative plans posted, despite Democrats propoganda that they haven't. Republicans have put forth legislation with their plans, despite claims to the opposite. Posts have been made on this forum detailing republican plans. They are out there, but the reason people don't realize it is because really, they don't matter. Republicans are in the super-minority, with the fact being that even if they managed to SOMEHOW pass it through both house and senate it wouldn't make it past the President. This is akin to saying why aren't you fighting back aggresively and frontally in earnest when you have rocks and the enemy has a tank.

I saw your question, but what you're asking is hardly unique, nor the first time its been asked on this forum. Its not even the dozenth time its been asked on this forum. I saw no real spur to answer it, yet again, when it at this point doesn't matter and its not in any way the topic of this thread.
 
reefedjib said:
Nobody has anything to say about my question here? WHere are all the solutions? Or are you just in the habit of criticizing? I think I know the answer....
Click to expand...
The conservative movement offered a ton of solutions that would work well.
1) Tort reform; giving more recourse against frivolous lawsuits- not in the bill
2) Allowing interstate competition among health insurance companies; would have extended more options to consumers, forcing better individual providers to improve. - not in the bill
3) Not conservative politicians, rather conservatives in economic, financial, and the health industry; Remove med-school cap on admissions, thus improving supply of doctors within only a few years.- not in the bill
4) More accountability. not correctly applied in the bill.
5) Removal of pre-existing conditions. - in the bill, but not done in a way that is economically viable.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I don't care who "wins" or "loses."

I want the best possible outcome, this isn't it.
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Of course it's not the best possible outcome. That is impossible with our two party system. One party tries to succeed and the other party does everything in their power to make them fail.
Nixon tried to implement a heathcare plan similar to this one. It's too bad it didn't pass then, for by now we would know if it lead to the best possible outcome.
 
To anybody here who earns more than 250 k per year I am now thanking you in advance for your wonderful generosity.:2wave:
 
USA-1 said:
Of course it's not the best possible outcome. That is impossible with our two party system. One party tries to succeed and the other party does everything in their power to make them fail.
Nixon tried to implement a heathcare plan similar to this one. It's too bad it didn't pass then, for by now we would know if it lead to the best possible outcome.
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The fact that many people don't know, if it will work or not, signals to me that it shouldn't have been done.

It's a complete gamble then.
We need to carefully study this, not slap together a hodgepodge of unknown.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
To anybody here who earns more than 250 k per year I am now thanking you in advance for your wonderful generosity.:2wave:
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Which includes most of the small businesses in the country. They will thank you when you have to pay more for the goods and services they provide.
 
LaMidRighter said:
The conservative movement offered a ton of solutions that would work well.
1) Tort reform; giving more recourse against frivolous lawsuits- not in the bill
2) Allowing interstate competition among health insurance companies; would have extended more options to consumers, forcing better individual providers to improve. - not in the bill
3) Not conservative politicians, rather conservatives in economic, financial, and the health industry; Remove med-school cap on admissions, thus improving supply of doctors within only a few years.- not in the bill
4) More accountability. not correctly applied in the bill.
5) Removal of pre-existing conditions. - in the bill, but not done in a way that is economically viable.
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Did you copy that off the Glenn Beck website?
If this is such a good plan why didn't the republicans implement it during the 6 years they had the power?

All of the above points might save a few dollars yet do not address the main problems of 30 million uninsured.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
To anybody here who earns more than 250 k per year I am now thanking you in advance for your wonderful generosity.:2wave:
Click to expand...

It's not generosity when someone steals something from someone else on your behalf and gives it to you.
 
Gill said:
Which includes most of the small businesses in the country. They will thank you when you have to pay more for the goods and services they provide.
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I don't care if it helps save one single life. :)
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
The fact that many people don't know, if it will work or not, signals to me that it shouldn't have been done.

It's a complete gamble then.
We need to carefully study this, not slap together a hodgepodge of unknown.
Click to expand...

Gee, everything is a gamble. There are no sure things in life. Every decision our leaders make is a gamble. You act like the healthcare reform hasn't been on the table for the last 40 years.
Here Nixons plan:
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/03/nixon-proposal.aspx
 
rivrrat said:
It's not generosity when someone steals something from someone else on your behalf and gives it to you.
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Well, that's debatable. It depends who the goose is. It's a basic chicken or egg question when it comes to, so called, wealth.
 
USA-1 said:
Did you copy that off the Glenn Beck website?
If this is such a good plan why didn't the republicans implement it during the 6 years they had the power?

All of the above points might save a few dollars yet do not address the main problems of 30 million uninsured.
Click to expand...

Why didn't Clinton in the 1990s??
 
USA-1 said:
Gee, everything is a gamble. There are no sure things in life. Every decision our leaders make is a gamble. You act like the healthcare reform hasn't been on the table for the last 40 years.
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It has but not anything I would put my name on as "reform."

We have good predictability with economic factors.
We know that behavior is the largest single thing effecting medical care.
Nothing has been done to address personal behavior.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
To anybody here who earns more than 250 k per year I am now thanking you in advance for your wonderful generosity.:2wave:
Click to expand...
Oh you are so wrong it isn't even funny. Your taxes just went up too.:rofl:rofl
First - You have to maintain insurance, and premiums are going up. So thank you for supporting those idiots in congress and especially that bafoon in the White House, because I am a life health agent and work off commission, you just gave me a raise. LOL!
Second - medical equipment is now taxable, so everything that has an FDA stamp on it, including toothbrushes, dental floss, water picks, toothpaste, etc. are now subject to the new assessed taxes. Congratulations you voted yourself a tax increase.
Third - when you do get a health plan that is suitable, if it's a cadillac plan you just got a new tax. HA HA.
Fourth - If you don't have insurance and are accepted onto the public rolls, you have to ask permission to see your doctor. I present insurance card and get preference.
So I'm sorry, you were saying? BTW, thanks for the raise, hope you enjoy your taxes.
 
The plan is organized around seven principles:

First, it offers every American an opportunity to obtain a balanced, comprehensive range of health insurance benefits;

Second, it will cost no American more than he can afford to pay;
Third, it builds on the strength and diversity of our existing public and private systems of health financing and harmonizes them into an overall system;

Fourth, it uses public funds only where needed and requires no new Federal taxes;

Fifth, it would maintain freedom of choice by patients and ensure that doctors work for their patient, not for the Federal Government.

Sixth, it encourages more effective use of our health care resources;

And finally, it is organized so that all parties would have a direct stake in making the system work--consumer, provider, insurer, State governments and the Federal Government.
 
USA-1 said:
The plan is organized around seven principles:

First, it offers every American an opportunity to obtain a balanced, comprehensive range of health insurance benefits;

Second, it will cost no American more than he can afford to pay;
Third, it builds on the strength and diversity of our existing public and private systems of health financing and harmonizes them into an overall system;

Fourth, it uses public funds only where needed and requires no new Federal taxes;

Fifth, it would maintain freedom of choice by patients and ensure that doctors work for their patient, not for the Federal Government.

Sixth, it encourages more effective use of our health care resources;

And finally, it is organized so that all parties would have a direct stake in making the system work--consumer, provider, insurer, State governments and the Federal Government.
Click to expand...

You should check out the CBO report on this.

The 3 things I liked about the bill were in every incarnation before it.

All I got added this time around was bad news.
 
USA-1 said:
Did you copy that off the Glenn Beck website?
If this is such a good plan why didn't the republicans implement it during the 6 years they had the power?

All of the above points might save a few dollars yet do not address the main problems of 30 million uninsured.
Click to expand...
What's your fiduciary or financial expertise again? Yeah, thought so. :2wave:
 
LaMidRighter said:
Oh you are so wrong it isn't even funny. Your taxes just went up too.:rofl:rofl
First - You have to maintain insurance, and premiums are going up. So thank you for supporting those idiots in congress and especially that bafoon in the White House, because I am a life health agent and work off commission, you just gave me a raise. LOL!
Second - medical equipment is now taxable, so everything that has an FDA stamp on it, including toothbrushes, dental floss, water picks, toothpaste, etc. are now subject to the new assessed taxes. Congratulations you voted yourself a tax increase.
Third - when you do get a health plan that is suitable, if it's a cadillac plan you just got a new tax. HA HA.
Fourth - If you don't have insurance and are accepted onto the public rolls, you have to ask permission to see your doctor. I present insurance card and get preference.
So I'm sorry, you were saying? BTW, thanks for the raise, hope you enjoy your taxes.
Click to expand...

I honestly could care less. I will just work more and make more money to make up for it. We are all brothers and sisters.:)
 
LiberalAvenger said:
I honestly could care less. I will just work more and make more money to make up for it. We are all brothers and sisters.:)
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Hah! So when the taxes are increased on income, and stock portfolios you think you're immune. Dude, you just punched yourself in the nose by supporting this.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Hah! So when the taxes are increased on income, and stock portfolios you think you're immune. Dude, you just punched yourself in the nose by supporting this.
Click to expand...

I am not materialistic. I still believe in love for my fellow man.:)
 
Zyphlin said:
I'm going to take a wild guess here as to why you've not heard a lot on this.

One, that's not the topic of this thread. This is discussing THIS health care bill that passed.

Two, there are numerous threads that have discussed republican alternatives. Some focused, some as asides. Its hardly a new topic and its unlikely taht people are going to jump to a question about it in a thread where its not really the topic and has no baring on the topic.

Which takes me to three, republican options are pointless right now. Republicans have had alternative plans posted, despite Democrats propoganda that they haven't. Republicans have put forth legislation with their plans, despite claims to the opposite. Posts have been made on this forum detailing republican plans. They are out there, but the reason people don't realize it is because really, they don't matter. Republicans are in the super-minority, with the fact being that even if they managed to SOMEHOW pass it through both house and senate it wouldn't make it past the President. This is akin to saying why aren't you fighting back aggresively and frontally in earnest when you have rocks and the enemy has a tank.

I saw your question, but what you're asking is hardly unique, nor the first time its been asked on this forum. Its not even the dozenth time its been asked on this forum. I saw no real spur to answer it, yet again, when it at this point doesn't matter and its not in any way the topic of this thread.
Click to expand...

One is a really good point. I thought that in understanding where conservatives see the current bill as being short some features, it would liven the place in a new direction.

Two I have seen a few items, mainly:
  • tort reform (I don't think this does squat)
  • allow ins companies to compete across state lines (I like this one a lot!)

I thought they were against the public option, then I saw it in the proposal made this morning (by you or CC, I forget). I have missed a comprehensive answer to the question and wondered how coverage for all was handled.

I know a strong complaint from conservatives is taking money from people to pay for others care. We have this of course, with taxes on the "Cadillac" plans and fees on the uninsured. Plus at $172 billion a year to the deficit, your average taxpayer is paying (as are his children!).

Three, I think the Republicans should have a positive alternative to replace the bill if they are going to campaign on rolling back this POS.

But it is probably the wrong thread for this.
 
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