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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #251
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by TBone View Post
    Well said by you and the Captain. Yet, people want to protect this mess. Many GOP want to protect the corporations and insurance companies and special interest groups that continue to gouge us.

    I have a case where my wife's cousin, who comes from a religously conservative family, who are dead-set against anything democratic, was diagnoised with mulitple myolomia (sic). He is a fire fighter, ex marine, with 3 you children. His insurance will not pay for a bone marrow trans?, and the hospital will not do it unless he comes up with 500K. Now we as a family have to come with the 500k to give this man a trans? He is a working member of society, who has served his country and his community, WHO HAS INSURANCE, yet, his health insurance provider can deny him coverage.

    Something is wrong with this picture. Health care reform will hopefully stop and protect us, who work, contribute, etc.
    Why have health insurance and pay premiums if you're not covered for what you need?
    Congress, especially the Republicans, get huge kickbacks, perks and additions to their campaign coffers by sleeping with the insurance and drug industries...hence, their opposition to anything which would alter their bread and butter. No wonder P.J. O'Rourke titled his tome about the U.S. Congress, "Parliament of Whores".
    The "death panels" are made up of bought whore Republicans and industry insiders who are determined that Americans pay huge premiums and get minimal care...while profits are diverted to them.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
    Why have health insurance and pay premiums if you're not covered for what you need?
    Congress, especially the Republicans, get huge kickbacks, perks and additions to their campaign coffers by sleeping with the insurance and drug industries...hence, their opposition to anything which would alter their bread and butter. No wonder P.J. O'Rourke titled his tome about the U.S. Congress, "Parliament of Whores".
    The "death panels" are made up of bought whore Republicans and industry insiders who are determined that Americans pay huge premiums and get minimal care...while profits are diverted to them.
    The sad thing is you don't seem to think Democrats do this - Barney Frank, Chris Dodd...

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    They don't seem to have to pay as much as we do to afford the same standards of living, so it works out pretty good from what I hear. Like in the 1950s US - taxes were higher, but your dollar went for a lot more.
    Why are you under the impression that they have the same standard of living? They are much poorer. They don't *have* to pay as much because they *cannot* pay as much.

    In the 50s our standard of living was lower. Everyone didn't have flatscreens and broadband.

  4. #254
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I don't have a link yet. It just happened. Will provide a link as soon as one is available.

    The next bill to be voted on is the Reconciliation bill.

    EDIT: Link is here.

    The way I see it, Republicans should not have gone down the road of misrepresentations and attacks. IMHO, this is what killed their attempts to stop this bill, which I agree is bad. Also, IMHO, the Tea Partiers are an albatross around the neck of the GOP, and tonight's vote is proof of that.

    Will post the results of the Reconciliation vote in this thread, just as soon as they come in.
    i was finished posting about this bill, but i'm glad it passed. it may be flawed, but it's a step in the right direction, imo.

    i completely agree with you about republicans, however. ;-)

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    I find it comical, but oh so typical, how libs can actually be gleeful today.

    Uh, hey libbies, you just passed a bill that is going to have 80 percent of the states SUE you over. And 60 percent of the country's citizens hates this to the core.

    LOL, congrats. People are so p'oed over this that you may well have witnessed the final nail in the coffin of your party. November is going to be bloody.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Why are you under the impression that they have the same standard of living? They are much poorer. They don't *have* to pay as much because they *cannot* pay as much.

    In the 50s our standard of living was lower. Everyone didn't have flatscreens and broadband.
    They weren't invented yet.

    Cars and TV sets were all the rage back then, and most Americans were acquiring them for themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    I find it comical, but oh so typical, how libs can actually be gleeful today.

    Uh, hey libbies, you just passed a bill that is going to have 80 percent of the states SUE you over. And 60 percent of the country's citizens hates this to the core.

    LOL, congrats. People are so p'oed over this that you may well have witnessed the final nail in the coffin of your party. November is going to be bloody.
    Wouldn't want to use accurate numbers since they are not overblown enough I take it. RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Obama and Democrats' Health Care Plan says you are wrong.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Talking Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    I find it comical, but oh so typical, how libs can actually be gleeful today.

    Uh, hey libbies, you just passed a bill that is going to have 80 percent of the states SUE you over. And 60 percent of the country's citizens hates this to the core.

    LOL, congrats. People are so p'oed over this that you may well have witnessed the final nail in the coffin of your party. November is going to be bloody.
    Sure, I'll pass for comical. I can't get the grin off of my face today no matter how much I try.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman View Post
    Wonderful, another bloated government program that will kill the private sector. Thanks for nothing!!!
    Such little faith for the private sector? Ha.... Truly intriguing. Government does not possess the ability to force what is left of our market system into despair.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman View Post
    Wonderful, another bloated government program that will kill the private sector. Thanks for nothing!!!
    Kill the private sector? No, I think private insurance companies will be just fine with having more customers, even if they have to accept sick people now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    This is socialism, plain and simple. Our government is destroying this country from the inside out. This will devastate our economy and put even more people out of work, not to mention what this will add to our outrageous and out of control deficit. Let's hope this gets shot down on Constitutional grounds and soon.
    You must have a pretty broad definition for socialism. Even universal government health insurance wouldn't be socialized medicine, strictly speaking, as the delivery would still be private. And this relatively moderate bill falls far short of that. Expanding medicaid and imposing individual mandates is a moderate approach. Not that I mean to imply that moderate is better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm waiting for proponents to defend the contents of this bill.

    Someone please tell me how this will make medical services cheaper, more accessible and not add to the federal deficit.
    Wider coverage, particularly the portion that expands Medicaid and improves primary care reimbursement, would/could make services cheaper by:

    1. Increase preventive and primary care utilization, which can save money.

    2. Decrease ER overutilization, as many uninsured poor use it in lieu of primary care, esp. given EMTALA. While necessary, the ER is a resource-intensive financial black hole, and this is exacerbated when it is used unnecessarily. Basically we end up paying for the uninsured anyway given how the ER drags the whole hospital into the red, spurning pressure to increase profits elsewhere and further raising costs in the process.

    3. Encouraging people to buy insurance via penalties expands the risk pool of insurance companies. Young/healthy people who formerly would wait until they're old/sick to buy insurance would be subsidizing those who are already sick/old. In this scenario, insurance companies could reduce premiums while holding profits and benefits constant. Unfortunately, they tend to pass savings onto shareholders, not policyholders. But given the volatile environment, we'll see what they do. They've had enough bad press that cultivating the public's good will could prevent damaging reforms in the future.

    More accessible is just obvious. They're expanding coverage via subsidies and mandates. The subsidies certainly increase government spending, but it is arguable whether that is offset by decreases in spending elsewhere, as aforementioned. Though to those who believe basic healthcare is a right, like basic education, cost isn’t the main issue.

    On a side note, one thing conservatives can feel good about is it would probably also slightly reduce the abortion rate given easier access to contraceptives, as has been the experience in MA.

    [quote=LaMidRighter;1058632529]
    There is absolute proof that this thing will increase cost, the CBO scores have already predicted deficits with incomplete data, and by that I mean there were more proposals not released to them expected to further projections towards more cost. As well, CBO numbers are almost always off in a negative way. Hell, even the CBO conceded this will cost more money. All traceable to government overregulation, this bill increases overregulation.

    Game/Set/Match/Thread
    Not really.

    1. An increasing proportion of elderly citizens is contributing to a rise in healthcare costs in most developed nations.

    2. New, expensive healthcare technologies are continuously being developed, and yet it is hard to put an upper limit on what one should spend to save a life.

    3. Increasing litigation not only gives doctors ridiculous malpractice insurance premiums that they pass on to you, but it also causes them to practice defensive medicine, ordering excessive tests to cover their butts.

    4. Administrative overhead in American healthcare is ~25%, while 5-10% is typical where there is "socialized medicine."

    5. Lobbyists convince idiot/shill politicians to do things like prohibit Medicare from negotiating for drug prices in 2001.

    And probably 10 or so more reasons, some unique to America and some not.

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
    Please, illustrate, link or document how the bill or the Dems are rewarding insurance companies, who, by and large were dead set against the bill, in any form. If the bill were so rewarding to insurance companies, why were they dead against it? I patiently await your response.
    Dead set against it? Maybe against the public option. Without the public option it’s a bonanza for them. They’ve been trying to steer the debate to maximize benefit to themselves, unsurprisingly. Remember how they whined about the penalties for not getting insurance not being harsh/high enough?

    I think we need a system somewhat like France. Like basic education, basic healthcare is treated as a right. So the government funds a basic healthcare package with cost-saving measures (e.g. formulary and encouragement of cost-effective interventions) for everybody but people could buy supplemental for customization.
    Last edited by LiveUninhibited; 03-22-10 at 10:59 AM.

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