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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #151
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    WWI and WWII. Korea and 'Nam were unnecessary, as was "The War on Drugs".

    Edit- I have no idea how this double posted.
    I am curious on why you think WWII was unnecessary. I know it is off topic, but I am interested in your reasoning.

  2. #152
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    With all the fact-check sites, and all the breakdowns of the bill that are out there and available to anyone interested in this issue, it is absolutely astounding that there are still people who actually believe this bill represents socialism or a government take-over...

    It just shows you want an effective job the GOP has done with misinformation and negative spin and what a piss-poor job the Dems have done on selling the bill to moderates and independents...

    I encourage anyone who really wants to know what's in this bill to find some honest conservative sources, some honest liberal sources, and some objective breakdowns and read them ALL.

    If you're only getting your news from Fox you're handicapping yourself in the same way someone who only watches MSNBC and reads Mother Jones...

    As a reasonable, logical person I know:

    (1) The people who wrote this legislation believe it will be effective in solving many complicated health policy problems. In other words, they would not set out to write policy that would fail or bring down the country.

    (2) The Dems that voted on this are putting themselves at risk, Politically speaking, given the current division in the country on this issue. I can not believe that entire party would commit political suicide, they must believe there is potential for success here.

    (3) Given the current mood in the country and the timeline for the bill to kick in, a 'No' vote is a pretty safe vote for Republicans.

    Just answer this Hazel,

    How are you going to add 30 million people to healthcare and not hire a single doctor when we are already in a crisis for doctors?
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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  3. #153
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    I am curious on why you think WWII was unnecessary. I know it is off topic, but I am interested in your reasoning.
    I probably wasn't clear in the interest of brevity. WWII was absolutely necessary. I meant to say that most wars after were debateable.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  4. #154
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Just answer this Hazel,

    How are you going to add 30 million people to healthcare and not hire a single doctor when we are already in a crisis for doctors?
    Those 30 million already see doctors... when it is absolutely necessary. They use the emergency room and then, don't pay.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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  5. #155
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Just answer this Hazel,

    How are you going to add 30 million people to healthcare and not hire a single doctor when we are already in a crisis for doctors?
    Well you make it not suck to work in the field. Like dealing with greedy ambulance chasers. That will probably do the most good.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    We are talking about cost control here. The reason health care costs so much, no matter who foots the bill as a third party payer, an individual, or contributing employer, is because of lifestyle choices.

    Using your logic, everybody dies, so why should we bother with healthcare at all? You can't save lives in the end.
    Quite simply: quality of life.
    Statistically, except for infant, maternal, and child mortality, our average lifespan isn't much improved from a century- even two centuries- ago.
    Most people in the 1800s who survived childhood and childbirth could expect to live to be around 70, as we do today.

    But their quality of life was very poor, compared to what we take for granted.
    Physically, they were absolutely ruined by the time they were forty or so. They were in shambles by the time they were 50, and bedridden for the rest of their lives shortly after that.
    Something as simple as arthritis, which effects so many Americans, could really make life a living hell if untreated, without shortening your life one bit.
    There are many chronic illnesses that are like that.
    In the past, old age was simply a time of extended misery... and it began when you were about 30.

    Who needs that? We're living in 2010. We don't have to live like primitives.

  7. #157
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    So what do you think of that link I gave you Lerxst? There is a section or two dedicated specifically to the credits you would receive depending on your size and scope of a company, as well as penalties if somehow providing insurance were to become unaffordable as an employer.

    as Harry Guerrilla said long ago in this thread, supporters need to show how they think this bill will help rather than just believing it will. All i have seen thus far is that "it will make everybody healthier", with nothing to back that up substantially.

    IMO, the root cause of health problems in this country(or the majority of them) come from lifestyle choices rather than this perceived lack of healthcare access. This bill, and I am sure the supplemental ones to follow do not adequetly address this. Much like our pharma companies(whom I disdain), we have treated the symptoms of health issues in this country rather than found a cure.
    I've been reading some of it and I can't quite tell you what I think to be honest. Since I have no idea what the government plans will consist of, nor do I have any idea what they will eventually cost I can't say how it will help or hurt me. I see that my business will not qualify for the tax credits they are proposing as we pay more than $50K a year annually to our employees. I don't know, I need to read some more and make sure I am understanding what I'm looking at.

    At this point it's still a case of wait and see for me.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Those 30 million already see doctors... when it is absolutely necessary. They use the emergency room and then, don't pay.
    Exactly. That's been my family's health care plan for years and years.
    If there were any other way, we wouldn't do it that way. We know the ER is for emergencies.
    But, for instance, when my husband was bitten by a feral cat we were trying to rescue: he needed rabies shots. They cost $7,000. We got them all at the ER. he had to go back every week for a month.
    He almost didn't, but the doctor in the ER convinced him that he had to, and insisted that he didn't care whether or not we could pay.
    Last edited by 1069; 03-22-10 at 01:40 AM.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I don't have a link yet. It just happened. Will provide a link as soon as one is available.

    The next bill to be voted on is the Reconciliation bill.

    EDIT: Link is here.

    The way I see it, Republicans should not have gone down the road of misrepresentations and attacks. IMHO, this is what killed their attempts to stop this bill, which I agree is bad. Also, IMHO, the Tea Partiers are an albatross around the neck of the GOP, and tonight's vote is proof of that.

    Will post the results of the Reconciliation vote in this thread, just as soon as they come in.
    Well this just sucks. Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail when it gets dragged through the court system with Constitutional challenges. If it can just be held off long enough for a Republican controlled house and Senate, then it can finally be put down like a lame horse.

  10. #160
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    That is what bothers me because I support these cuts and it is what makes the bill sustainable. Medicare advantage has been shown to be more expensive than traditional medicare.

    At least the "donut hole" got closed. I feel the multitude of insurance plans for this only worked to confuse people rather than hold costs down.
    That's the moral of this "story."

    Liberals/Democrats forget that Republicans will take control again, they will screw with this just as bad as Democrats have and not in ways that will make them happy.

    To the supporters, congratulations.
    You just opened a new can of worms that both parties can mess with and at your expense.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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