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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    That's not the real problem with the bill, although it's part of it. The biggest problem most people have outside of the health industry are the mandates to purchase and all of the backloaded taxes. Many of us in the health industry, whether care providers or insurance professionals know that this bill misses many of the problems with healthcare in this country, there are a few things that look good at face value in the bill, but there is much more bad, alot can lend itself to abuse and there are way too many loose ends. I am about to start re-reading core provisions myself because it pertains to part of my practice, but it isn't looking good so far. I'm trying to stay out of this thread for a while to stay cool, but you've been a pretty reasonable poster at this site so I thought you deserved an honest answer.
    I also want to get acquainted with the bill before I really start tearing into it... I knew this bill was going to be bad, and with what little I'm aware of, I figured it might be the 'illegal alien amnesty' provisions, the provisions expanding the powers of the IRS, the death panels, or whatever other shocking things got packaged in as 'health care reform'...

    I've heard some describe this as comparable to the canadian system of health care, but I can say for certain that this will be far more devastating.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Is that the big problem with the bill?? The free loaders?
    Not entirely but there will be perfectly health people that can afford insurance now, getting subsidies for no reason.
    It can't possibly live up to it's hyped savings.
    In fact I believe it will add a lot more to the national and/or internal debt.

    Last and most importantly, they haven't done a single thing to fix our already underfunded social programs and extreme debts.

    It bothers me a great deal that people, who support the bill, ignore the elephant in the room that is many trillions of dollars.
    It's like giving 3 year olds automatic weapons and expecting something good to come of it.

    It makes me think of a quote from the movie gladiator.
    "He will bring them death(in this case debt), and they will love him for it."
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Denmark has had socialized health care for years. They also have free higher education. It has not destroyed them yet.

    I could cite a lot more examples from Yurp but I do not want to bore anybody who is against health care for the people created by the Creator.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That's because of artificial demand created by education grants and subsidized loans.
    Artificial demand = more people attending college. I am not to sure you can label that in any negative fashion.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Artificial demand = more people attending college. I am not to sure you can label that in any negative fashion.
    It depends on what kind of people are attending.

    As you know not everyone finishes, so it is no more than wasted money.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It depends on what kind of people are attending.

    As you know not everyone finished, so it is no more than wasted money.
    Not everyone finishes anyway. Unless we can identify a differential marginal rate of dropping out, the homage of "more people in universities" is better than less. An educated workforce is a key to developed economic growth.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Not everyone finishes anyway. Unless we can identify a differential marginal rate of dropping out, the homage of "more people in universities" is better than less.
    Again it depends on what they are studying.

    I'm not so sure we need anymore fashion designers but the added bonus for Jr and Sr level science majors is good, they should do that with Freshman and Sophomores.

    I think it should be more targeted toward degree holders we need.

    Edit: If I could wave a magic wand and change things, I'd also make it more flexible with class load requirements.
    Having to go full time while working a full time job, makes it very difficult for someone to succeed.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 03-25-10 at 08:05 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Again it depends on what they are studying.

    I'm not so sure we need anymore fashion designers but the added bonus for Jr and Sr level science majors is good, they should do that with Freshman and Sophomores.

    I think it should be more targeted toward degree holders we need.
    But who are we to decide what is optimal?

    I have a very wealthy friend (older gentleman) who has his last daughter @ University. She came there as a bio/chem major with aspirations to go to med school. She switched to a theater major by semester 3, and i posed the question: does that piss you off? He replied that he does not care what his daughter does with her education as long as she finishes it and is happy. And i admire such sentiment.

    Why? Because higher education is based on the desire for higher learning. Once we begin to taint the creative process, the desire, the dream... it is no longer education and becomes indoctrination. IMHO of course.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    But who are we to decide what is optimal?

    I have a very wealthy friend (older gentleman) who has his last daughter @ University. She came there as a bio/chem major with aspirations to go to med school. She switched to a theater major by semester 3, and i posed the question: does that piss you off? He replied that he does not care what his daughter does with her education as long as she finishes it and is happy. And i admire such sentiment.

    Why? Because higher education is based on the desire for higher learning. Once we begin to taint the creative process, the desire, the dream... it is no longer education and becomes indoctrination. IMHO of course.
    If the intent is for a better quality economy, then that it was it should be geared for.
    Personal growth is a different story.

    We are importing science and engineering graduates because there aren't enough here.
    Add the incentive to study it.

    I mean it's great to study what you want, I have no problem with that but don't we want the best return on that investment.

    I'm still iffy on it, with the full disclosure that I use it to attend school.
    I think it could be done better.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If the intent is for a better quality economy, then that it was it should be geared for.
    Judgment calls on what make the economy better (micro) are dangerous. There are two aspects that are primary engines: health care and education.

    Now with that in mind, the goal should be (macro) to increase access to both. Just like you cannot make a person healthy, you cannot make a person take math. However.... There is an extremely strong positive correlation in regards to higher skills in mathematics and higher lifetime earning and or wealth. Increase the access and let the market decide. If someone really wants to make more money, they will embark on an education that is heavily entwined in mathematics.

    Personal growth is a different story.
    It is impossible to dichotomize whether personal growth does not lead to economic growth. Some people really enjoy math.

    We are importing science and engineering graduates because there aren't enough here.
    Add the incentive to study it.
    The market already gives the incentive: you will make more money (on average). Attempting to hinder the creative process in favor of more math can have negative cultural effects.

    I mean it's great to study what you want, I have no problem with that but don't we want the best return on that investment.
    It is something that i am afraid cannot be measured nominally. More scientists and less chefs might sound good to you, but what negative impact would it have (long run) on the hospitality industry? Get the idea?

    I'm still iffy on it, with the full disclosure that I use it to attend school.
    I think it could be done better.
    I really am against micro management in the higher education process, especially in the form of policy application. American Universities are by far (and by a long shot) the best in the world. The next Conan O'Brian can might become an ordinary mechanical engineer. What does that do for economic growth
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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