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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #1011
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    No that is not the case

    The government took over government subsidized student loans

    You can still go to a bank and get a private student loan.

    The loan you were getting was subsidized by the government, it is just that the government let private banks administer them (for a nice profit to the banks)
    And why did they take it over? To provide revenue for this bill, not to help out students in a time when higher education is strongly needed. They took it from the banks and raised the interest rate, how does that help anyone? Not only that, but it is further control of the banks and will possibly cause less people to go to college (because of higher rates and more to pay in loans after graduation).

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    How dare you ruin their good feelings about themselves! Shame on you for crashing their utopian dream session with reality. {sarcasm off}
    But the good thing is that I can be a bum off my parents insurance plan until my late 20's!!! With all the sob stories out there I thought I'd post mine too
    Last edited by digsbe; 03-24-10 at 12:51 AM.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    And why did they take it over? To provide revenue for this bill, not to help out students in a time when higher education is strongly needed. They took it from the banks and raised the interest rate, how does that help anyone? Not only that, but it is further control of the banks and will possibly cause less people to go to college (because of higher rates and more to pay in loans after graduation).
    Right they took a government subsidized program from the banks

    A program you were gladly taking part in. Ie you were taking part in a government subsidized program and found it to be a good thing

    Which is why I found odd and inconsistant for you to complain about government subsidies (programs) while willingly taking part in one, when there are private options for you to take


    And how does taking a program from the banks further control over the banks? It should actually lower the amount of control the government has on the banks, as they no longer have the carrot to dangle in front of them (they took the carrot away
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 03-24-10 at 12:54 AM.
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    But the good thing is that I can be a bum off my parents insurance plan until my late 20's!!! With all the sob stories out there I thought I'd post mine too
    Shhhhhh. They only like that tactic when it allows them to take more stuff over, not when it proves they don't know what the **** they're doing.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Right they took a government subsidized program from the banks

    A program you were gladly taking part in. Ie you were taking part in a government subsidized program and found it to be a good thing

    Which is why I found odd and inconsistant for you to complain about government subsidies (programs) while willingly taking part in one, when there are private options for you to take


    And how does taking a program from the banks further control over the banks? It should actually lower the amount of control the government has on the banks, as they no longer have the carrot to dangle in front of them (they took the carrot away
    I was glad to take part in it because it saved me money. What they did proves that they could care less about higher education and saving students money in a time of economic crises. The government subsidies were supposed to encourage college enrollment and cut costs, instead they have increased them. What they did is a good thing for students back then, but now they have made it worse in a time that really can't handle it. All issues are different. Subsidizing student loans is a good thing for education (I mean, we do pay tons more for public schooling). Subsidizing healthcare like this is a bad thing. Each issue is different, and Obama's actions with this has screwed the students and the self employed. I gain nothing good from this bill, my loan will cost more and now my financially hurting family must pay more in a time of crisis. This bill is terrible, and it has affected me negatively two times so far with nothing good.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I was glad to take part in it because it saved me money. What they did proves that they could care less about higher education and saving students money in a time of economic crises. The government subsidies were supposed to encourage college enrollment and cut costs, instead they have increased them. What they did is a good thing for students back then, but now they have made it worse in a time that really can't handle it. All issues are different. Subsidizing student loans is a good thing for education (I mean, we do pay tons more for public schooling). Subsidizing healthcare like this is a bad thing. Each issue is different, and Obama's actions with this has screwed the students and the self employed. I gain nothing good from this bill, my loan will cost more and now my financially hurting family must pay more in a time of crisis. This bill is terrible, and it has affected me negatively two times so far with nothing good.
    Right so you are against government subsidizies that do not benifit you, but are for them when they do,

    I understand that totally
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Moderator's Warning:
    Health Care Bill has passedThis thread has evoked more thread bans and more infractions than any thread in the history of DP. The posters that have already been eliminated, demonstrated that they were incapable of debating this topic with any civility or rationality. My suggestion to the rest of you is this. If you cannot debate this topic with civility and rationality, and feel that the only way you CAN is to either gloat, or whine, remove YOURSELF from the thread. You are doing NOTHING to help with your position, either pro- or con-. Take some responsibility for your own behaviors.
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Right so you are against government subsidizies that do not benifit you, but are for them when they do,

    I understand that totally
    These government subsidies are wrong though, it would be better to sell insurance across state lines to lower costs. My student loan subsidy is far cheaper than that of health insurance. Each issue is different. I am for some subsides and against some others based on the issue. This doesn't make me a hypocrite. My argument is that it is unnecessary to make insurance cheaper through government spending if we let the market work it out via the competition of selling beyond state lines. This bill is bad for the majority of people, and personally for me.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    These government subsidies are wrong though, it would be better to sell insurance across state lines to lower costs. My student loan subsidy is far cheaper than that of health insurance. Each issue is different. I am for some subsides and against some others based on the issue. This doesn't make me a hypocrite. My argument is that it is unnecessary to make insurance cheaper through government spending if we let the market work it out via the competition of selling beyond state lines. This bill is bad for the majority of people, and personally for me.
    Then I would suggest arguing as such rather them making a stink about government subsidies being bad and that people using them are leeches on the hard working americans.

    It is a far better arguement, in my opinion, certainly one that I would expect more people to respect (perhaps not agree).

    That aside,

    Regarding government subsidies in student loans, and in comparision to government subsidizies regarding health insurance.

    I expect the government stepped in to provide subsidizies for student loans because loans in the past were not affordable for a good deal of students, and that it viewed having a higher number of people with higher education good for the individual and society. Given the high number of people who use government subsidizied student loans I expect they tend to agree. I would also expect that private lenders were not making student loans cheaper before the government stepped in to provide subsidized student loans. There are times when the market will not achieve goals that society may deem worthwhile (cheap student loans for instance, or affordable health insurance for all)

    Could not a case be made that having a healthier individual should or will have health insurance now be better for the individual and for society.

    As both an educated and healthy population tends to be a more productive society.
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 03-24-10 at 01:33 AM.
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  9. #1019
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It's spread out over several posts over several threads. Here's what I remember.

    Health care is NOT a right. It is an option. In my plan there are "Tiers" of health insurance. NO ONE is required to purchase health care insurance, and there are no fines if you do not.

    Tier 1: Public Option: this option is offered by the government at prices competitive with private insurance, or at low cost for those who have problems with affordability based on eligibility. It would be paid for through an additional tax called the "HC" tax. Folks who do not want this option, can opt out, and will either get a tax rebate for the "HC" amount, or will simply not be required to pay it, which ever is more efficient.

    Tier 2: Private Option: for those who opt out of the public option. Folks can pay for private insurance, or accept their company's insurance options.

    Exemptions: Under no circumstances can any illegal alien receive any kind of health insurance, public, private, or Medicare/Medicaid.

    Cost offset: This is the radical, yet cornestone of my plan. If you opt out of the public option, and do not purchase a private plan, if you get ill, you MUST pay out of pocket. Under NO circumstances will the government subsidize your treatment. NO EXCEPTIONS... catastrophic illness, accident, children... NO EXCEPTIONS. The options will be there and will be affordable. You chose not to take one of them, you lose. No physician or hospital will be under any obligation to treat anyone with no ability to pay. They MAY if they choose, but they can also "opt out".

    Other parts of my plan:

    1) Major Tort Reform.
    2) The ability to purchase health care across state lines to further stimulate competition.
    3) Elimination of insurance company driven utilization review, putting all treatment decisions in the hands of the provider.
    4) No pre-existing condition limitation.
    5) Adult children can remain on parental health insurance until 26.
    6) Centralized, independent organization reviewing/evaluating all health care insurers (including the public option) with the power to fine or even shut down.

    These are broad strokes, of course, but you get the gist. The plan above should both please liberals with a public option and making health care affordable to everyone, and to conservatives with creating a system that requires personal responsibility and competition. I'd be happy to answer questions about this plan, and am open to some REASONABLE additions. If you just want to throw hysterical partisan hackery at me, don't bother responding to this post. Both HarryGurellia and LaMidRighter have seen parts or all of this and, if I recall correctly, liked what they saw.
    I know you said this probably 30 pages ago by now CC, but I wanted to tell you this sounds like a great plan. A few things need to be hammered out and then it would be probably one of the better HC bills that I have read.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    I know you said this probably 30 pages ago by now CC, but I wanted to tell you this sounds like a great plan. A few things need to be hammered out and then it would be probably one of the better HC bills that I have read.
    Thanks. I'm going to try to answer some questions that a few folks asked me about it, later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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