Dutch fury at US general's gay theory over Srebrenica

Jetboogieman · Mar 19, 2010

Dutch officials have rejected a retired US general's claim that its forces failed at Srebrenica because of poor morale over openly gay soldiers.

A defence ministry spokesman dismissed as "complete nonsense" the remarks by John Sheehan, a former Nato commander.

Gen Sheehan had been speaking at a US Senate hearing on allowing gay people to serve openly in the US military.

He said Dutch leaders had told him that the presence of gay soldiers had contributed to the Bosnian massacre.

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Several countries - including Britain, Canada, Australia and Israel - allow openly gay people to serve in the armed services.

BBC News - Dutch fury at US general's gay theory over Srebrenica

Rediculous statement. There is no way fathomable. That having openly gay soldiers could in any way cause a massacre.

Partisan · Mar 19, 2010

Jetboogieman said:
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BBC News - Dutch fury at US general's gay theory over Srebrenica

Rediculous statement. There is no way fathomable. That having openly gay soldiers could in any way cause a massacre.

Why not?.....

The pansies were owned by the Serbs.....:lol:

Djoop · Mar 19, 2010

We have the gayest army in the world, you wouldn't believe the ******s in charge of our defense departement.

Sheehan (what's in a name) proves things could be worse though.., at least retards can't join our army.

texmaster · Mar 19, 2010

That's a very interesting take. Its fascinating that the soldiers themselves contributed to his opinion.

texmaster · Mar 19, 2010

Jetboogieman said:
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BBC News - Dutch fury at US general's gay theory over Srebrenica

Rediculous statement. There is no way fathomable. That having openly gay soldiers could in any way cause a massacre.

So the soldiers he talked to were lying?

I believe he simply said it was a contributing factor not the sole reason.

CriticalThought · Mar 19, 2010

If the retired general can prove that letting gays serve openly in the army was a major contributing factor, then let's see the evidence. Given that it was studied very intensely by several different organizations and none of them collaborated in the least on what he said, I think he may have an uphill battle on his hands. Oh wait! No he doesn't because he clarified that he was talking about the liberalization of the forces into a peace keeping force rather than combatant force, which has very little to do with the sexual orientation of soldiers. I guess even retired generals can grasp at straws.

CriticalThought · Mar 19, 2010

texmaster said:
That's a very interesting take. Its fascinating that the soldiers themselves contributed to his opinion.

As I recall, he named only one name when pressed for names.

texmaster · Mar 19, 2010

CriticalThought said:
As I recall, he named only one name when pressed for names.

Perhaps he did not have the consent of the other soldiers to subject them to the fury of the press on this issue.

Jetboogieman · Mar 19, 2010

texmaster said:
Perhaps he did not have the consent of the other soldiers to subject them to the fury of the press on this issue.

Or maybe... he's wrong and there's nothing wrong with gay people. I know some gay guys who are some truly tough mofo's.

Being gay does not mean that you are weak, or scared of combat. That is a negative Xenophobic view.

texmaster · Mar 19, 2010

Jetboogieman said:
Or maybe... he's wrong and there's nothing wrong with gay people. I know some gay guys who are some truly tough mofo's.

Being gay does not mean that you are weak, or scared of combat. That is a negative Xenophobic view.

Or perhaps you are wrong. He said he discussed this with fellow soldiers. Unless you can prove he is lying, this is his opinion based on real world discussions with fellow soldiers.

And again, he said this was one factor not the entire reason for the decline.

CriticalThought · Mar 19, 2010

texmaster said:
Perhaps he did not have the consent of the other soldiers to subject them to the fury of the press on this issue.

I would say the fact that he could not support his accusations with a thread of evidence, that he could only name one deposed leader who shared his opinion, and that he recanted what he said by clarifying that he meant the liberalization of the forces into a peace keeping force, is a strong indication that he made an error in judgment while speaking.

texmaster · Mar 19, 2010

CriticalThought said:
I would say the fact that he could not support his accusations with a thread of evidence, that he could only name one deposed leader who shared his opinion, and that he recanted what he said by clarifying that he meant the liberalization of the forces into a peace keeping force, is a strong indication that he made an error in judgment while speaking.

Liberalization isn't even mentioned in the article and where did he "recant"?

You realize the source he used was the chief of staff of the Dutch Army correct?

Gina · Mar 19, 2010

Jetboogieman said:
Or maybe... he's wrong and there's nothing wrong with gay people. I know some gay guys who are some truly tough mofo's.

Being gay does not mean that you are weak, or scared of combat. That is a negative Xenophobic view.

Exactly. Just as being straight does not automatically confer heroic status on a man.

What a black eye the general gives our country and our military.

Partisan · Mar 19, 2010

Gina said:
Exactly. Just as being straight does not automatically confer heroic status on a man.

What a black eye the general gives our country and our military.

Why?....
He was talking about the Dutch ...

Partisan · Mar 19, 2010

texmaster said:
Liberalization isn't even mentioned in the article and where did he "recant"?

You realize the source he used was the chief of staff of the Dutch Army correct?

He didn't & the only reason he was able to speak up is because he didn't have to fear losing his job over some PC crapola....

texmaster · Mar 19, 2010

Partisan said:
He didn't & the only reason he was able to speak up is because he didn't have to fear losing his job over some PC crapola....

Completely agree. There is no way he could be that honest and still serve. Its a sad chapter in quashing free speech.

Gina · Mar 19, 2010

Partisan said:
Why?....
He was talking about the Dutch ...

He insulted an ally. The Dutch are infuriated at his comments. The general makes us look a nation of homophobes.

Dutch outrage as US general blames gay soldiers for Srebrenica - Times Online

Renée Jones-Bos, the Dutch Ambassador to the United States, said that she "couldn’t disagree more” with General Sheehan, adding there was no evidence of his claims in the extensive record of research on Srebrenica.

Roger Van de Wetering, from the Dutch Defence Ministry added: “For us it is unbelievable that a man of this rank is stating this nonsense, because that is what it is.

“The whole operation in Srebrenica and the drama that took place over there was thoroughly investigated by Dutch and international authorities and none of these investigations has ever concluded or suggested a link between homosexual military personnel and the things that happened over there. I do not know on what facts this is based, but for us it is total nonsense.

"Every man or woman that meets the criteria physically and mentally is welcome to serve in our Armed Forces regardless of (religious) belief, sexual preference or whatever.”

CriticalThought · Mar 19, 2010

texmaster said:
Liberalization isn't even mentioned in the article and where did he "recant"?

You realize the source he used was the chief of staff of the Dutch Army correct?

That is probably why you should learn to look up more than one article tex.

texmaster · Mar 19, 2010

CriticalThought said:
That is probably why you should learn to look up more than one article tex.

Then enlighten us all CT.

You make these claims without producing evidence then expect everyone to just accept it on your word alone?

Please, provide direct quotes and links.

texmaster · Mar 19, 2010

Gina said:
He insulted an ally. The Dutch are infuriated at his comments. The general makes us look a nation of homophobes.

Dutch outrage as US general blames gay soldiers for Srebrenica - Times Online

Renée Jones-Bos, the Dutch Ambassador to the United States, said that she "couldn’t disagree more” with General Sheehan, adding there was no evidence of his claims in the extensive record of research on Srebrenica.

Roger Van de Wetering, from the Dutch Defence Ministry added: “For us it is unbelievable that a man of this rank is stating this nonsense, because that is what it is.

“The whole operation in Srebrenica and the drama that took place over there was thoroughly investigated by Dutch and international authorities and none of these investigations has ever concluded or suggested a link between homosexual military personnel and the things that happened over there. I do not know on what facts this is based, but for us it is total nonsense.

"Every man or woman that meets the criteria physically and mentally is welcome to serve in our Armed Forces regardless of (religious) belief, sexual preference or whatever.”

Do you understand he was repeated what the source, a Dutchman said? Why are you mad at him when it was a Dutch source?

Partisan · Mar 19, 2010

Gina said:
He insulted an ally. The Dutch are infuriated at his comments. The general makes us look a nation of homophobes.

Dutch outrage as US general blames gay soldiers for Srebrenica - Times Online

Renée Jones-Bos, the Dutch Ambassador to the United States, said that she "couldn’t disagree more” with General Sheehan, adding there was no evidence of his claims in the extensive record of research on Srebrenica.

Roger Van de Wetering, from the Dutch Defence Ministry added: “For us it is unbelievable that a man of this rank is stating this nonsense, because that is what it is.

“The whole operation in Srebrenica and the drama that took place over there was thoroughly investigated by Dutch and international authorities and none of these investigations has ever concluded or suggested a link between homosexual military personnel and the things that happened over there. I do not know on what facts this is based, but for us it is total nonsense.

"Every man or woman that meets the criteria physically and mentally is welcome to serve in our Armed Forces regardless of (religious) belief, sexual preference or whatever.”

That's why they were pwned......:lol:

Gina · Mar 19, 2010

texmaster said:
Do you understand he was repeated what the source, a Dutchman said? Why are you mad at him when it was a Dutch source?

Could you clarify that?

I provided statements from Dutch sources which deny homosexual soldiers contributed to their failure.

“The whole operation in Srebrenica and the drama that took place over there was thoroughly investigated by Dutch and international authorities and none of these investigations has ever concluded or suggested a link between homosexual military personnel and the things that happened over there. I do not know on what facts this is based, but for us it is total nonsense.

I'm sorry, but I've been googling for a transcript and cannot find who Sheehan identified as his source beyond "Dutch leaders".

Gina · Mar 19, 2010

Partisan said:
That's why they were pwned......:lol:

"Every man or woman that meets the criteria physically and mentally is welcome to serve in our Armed Forces regardless of (religious) belief, sexual preference or whatever.”

"Meets the criteria".

*rolls eyes at the xenophobic homophobia in this thread*

NoJingoLingo · Mar 19, 2010

Djoop said:
We have the gayest army in the world, you wouldn't believe the ******s in charge of our defense departement.

Sheehan (what's in a name) proves things could be worse though.., at least retards can't join our army.

Just once I'd like to see some asshat call someone gay, a ***** or pansy, only to have them get their ass handed to them.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvjTIukcFas"]YouTube- Гопник против гомосексуала, малая садовая / Chav Vs Homosexual[/ame]

jallman · Mar 19, 2010

texmaster said:
Perhaps he did not have the consent of the other soldiers to subject them to the fury of the press on this issue.

Then perhaps, until he is willing or able to point to corroborating sources for his claim, his opining is nothing more than...well...opinion.

Dutch fury at US general's gay theory over Srebrenica

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

Partisan

Djoop

texmaster

Hippie Hater

texmaster

Hippie Hater

CriticalThought

CriticalThought

texmaster

Hippie Hater

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

texmaster

Hippie Hater

CriticalThought

texmaster

Hippie Hater

Gina

Partisan

Partisan

texmaster

Hippie Hater

Gina

CriticalThought

texmaster

Hippie Hater

texmaster

Hippie Hater

Partisan

Gina

Gina

NoJingoLingo

jallman