Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 65

Thread: Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

  1. #51
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,091

    Re: Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Exactly, you cut taxes and reduce spending.......works every time.......JFK did it....Reagan did it and so did President Bush........
    Reagan and Bush did not reduce spending. Neither did JFK. The evidence that you're not as old as you claim to be keeps growing.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #52
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    How many people make enough to pay a particular tax rate is irrelevant to the tax rate. The rate is what it is and if you make enough, you pay at that rate.
    It's absolutely relevant to the question of whether that rate is a good idea. If we wanted to impose a 90% tax on incomes over $10b, I doubt many people would give a ****. If it were imposed on incomes over $10k, it'd be slightly more controversial.

    How about math. If you make 500 million a year and are taxed at 35% would you pay more or less tax if the rate was 70%?
    You claimed it would have a positive effect on the economy. Do you understand the difference between tax revenue and "the economy"?

    I'm sorry that instead of a rebuttal of substance you chose to dodge.
    It's all you really deserve if you're going to conflate things like revenues and economic growth without demonstrating any understanding of the difference.

    Says you, a Reaganite.
    No, says the tax foundation. Read the numbers.

    From your link:

    "In 2007, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income."
    There you go.

    2007 total net worth of top 1% = 34.6% the next 19% = 50.5% and the rest - 80% = 15%

    2007 financial wealth of the top 1%= 42.7% the next 19% = 50.3% and the rest - 80% = 7.0%

    Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

    I happen to disagree with you.
    That's because you don't appear to understand the difference between wealth and income.

    We were and still are operating under Reaganomics.
    So Reagan was responsible for the economic boom of the 90's? Good to know!

    Thanks you. I'll take that as an 'I have no real rebuttal'.
    You're right, I don't have a real rebuttal to the brilliant argument of "We've all listened to your ilk too long and now look at the mess."
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  3. #53
    Guru

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,947

    Re: Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post



    Why don't you also use the Craig T. Nelson school of thought while you're telling us how your Dad got scholarships... The quote goes like this:

    "I've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision. That came from my education." -Craig T. Nelson.
    Did I ever say that getting help is always bad, Please show me where I said that. I asked you how were the rich people getting rich at the expense of the rest of us. He got really good grades and did lots of extra activities as well as served in the Army. Why is that not something that most people in this country could do. The majority of poor people in this country are poor because of the choises they made in thier lives and it should not be the resposibility of those who made good decisions to take care of those who were to lazy or wanted to be cool and blow of school. They made thier decisions and should have to live with them. I am so sick of people who screwed up thier own lives and now are dont have good jobs blaming rich people for thier problems. It is called personal resopnibility. Try it sometime.
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, “He stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

  4. #54
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It is the most relevant part.
    If you have a 90% tax at X dollars, then people are going to drop out of that fast.
    They will go to the minimum threshold to avoid it.

    Now if it's 40% or so, more people won't be against paying that as much as they would 90%.
    Oh I see, you're using the "rich people will quit working if taxed too much" Bar-gument. Sorry, bar-guments don't fly with me.

    You were using loaded language.
    I hate when people describe wealthy individuals as "fortunate."
    It implies that they didn't earn it.
    They are fortunate. Fortunate that they we born in the USA. Fortunate that they got a good education. Fortunate that they got the opportunity to become wealthy. Fortunate to live in a country with the infrastructure to facilitate their business needs. Fortunate, along with some luck and hard work.

    "I'd rather have luck than skill anyday" - Gen Chuck Yeager

    In most cases, the wealth controlled by the top 20% in our country got there because of lucky break(s) or family money.

  5. #55
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It's absolutely relevant to the question of whether that rate is a good idea. If we wanted to impose a 90% tax on incomes over $10b, I doubt many people would give a ****. If it were imposed on incomes over $10k, it'd be slightly more controversial.
    Right, and mice are absolutely relevant to the question of what kind of trap you need. Too bad that wasn't the question, in either case.

    You claimed it would have a positive effect on the economy. Do you understand the difference between tax revenue and "the economy"?

    It's all you really deserve if you're going to conflate things like revenues and economic growth without demonstrating any understanding of the difference.
    That's what you get for not following the thread and instead jumping in on someones argument. Now follow the arrows back and find out what we were referring to.

    No, says the tax foundation. Read the numbers.
    My mistake, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were giving the opinion that the wealthy are taxed enough.

    That's because you don't appear to understand the difference between wealth and income.
    No, YOU'VE confused the discussion by not following along and jumping in.

    So Reagan was responsible for the economic boom of the 90's? Good to know!
    No he's responsible for the that bubble and resulting recession. Clinton wasn't responsible for that boom either, it was wholly a technological boom. Microsoft, Intel and IBM, were basically responsible. Clinton just happened to be sitting there.

    You're right, I don't have a real rebuttal to the brilliant argument of "We've all listened to your ilk too long and now look at the mess."
    Good.

  6. #56
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Oh I see, you're using the "rich people will quit working if taxed too much" Bar-gument. Sorry, bar-guments don't fly with me.
    I guess your not familiar with the Laffer curve.
    It addresses what I'm talking about.

    It's pretty accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    They are fortunate. Fortunate that they we born in the USA. Fortunate that they got a good education. Fortunate that they got the opportunity to become wealthy. Fortunate to live in a country with the infrastructure to facilitate their business needs. Fortunate, along with some luck and hard work.

    "I'd rather have luck than skill anyday" - Gen Chuck Yeager

    In most cases, the wealth controlled by the top 20% in our country got there because of lucky break(s) or family money.
    There is no such thing as luck, that is just fantasy.

    To the latter, that isn't even true.
    Most of that money is earned, not luckily given or luckily found.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #57
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    Did I ever say that getting help is always bad, Please show me where I said that.
    Strawman. please show me where I said, that you said, getting help is always bad.

    I asked you how were the rich people getting rich at the expense of the rest of us.
    And my reply was that THE REST of us probably paid for that scholarship. Unless you'd like to name a specific scholarship...

    And your Dad's service (like mine) was paid for by THE REST of us as well as any money for college that the military gave your father.

    He got really good grades and did lots of extra activities as well as served in the Army. Why is that not something that most people in this country could do.
    There are a myriad of reasons why people don't or can't join the military as well as not getting good grades. Most are not because they are too lazy.

    The majority of poor people in this country are poor because of the choises they made in thier lives and it should not be the resposibility of those who made good decisions to take care of those who were to lazy or wanted to be cool and blow of school. They made thier decisions and should have to live with them. I am so sick of people who screwed up thier own lives and now are dont have good jobs blaming rich people for thier problems. It is called personal resopnibility. Try it sometime.
    So people who were laid off from their jobs are just too lazy. Got it. Oh, you mean the "always been poor" people? Who are they? Specifically? Are they just lazy people who blew off school to be cool?

  8. #58
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I guess your not familiar with the Laffer curve.
    It addresses what I'm talking about.

    It's pretty accurate.
    It's pretty debunked.
    Article: A non-singular peaked Laffer curve: debunking the traditional Laffer curve.
    A non-singular peaked Laffer curve: debunking the traditional Laffer curve. - American Economist | HighBeam Research - FREE trial
    The Laffer Curve doesn't work out in the US because our marginal tax rate is too low for it to be effective.

    Tax Cuts Don't Boost Revenues
    If there's one thing that economists agree on, it's that these claims are false. We're not talking just ivory-tower lefties. Virtually every economics Ph.D. who has worked in a prominent role in the Bush Administration acknowledges that the tax cuts enacted during the past six years have not paid for themselves--and were never intended to. Harvard professor Greg Mankiw, chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisers from 2003 to 2005, even devotes a section of his best-selling economics textbook to debunking the claim that tax cuts increase revenues.
    Tax Cuts Don't Boost Revenues - TIME
    There is no such thing as luck, that is just fantasy.
    If you say so... a lot of people in Vegas disagree.

    To the latter, that isn't even true.
    Most of that money is earned, not luckily given or luckily found.
    You apparently don't know who is in our top 20%.

  9. #59
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Right, and mice are absolutely relevant to the question of what kind of trap you need. Too bad that wasn't the question, in either case.


    That's what you get for not following the thread and instead jumping in on someones argument. Now follow the arrows back and find out what we were referring to.

    No, YOU'VE confused the discussion by not following along and jumping in.
    So disingenuous. Here's what you said:

    Oh, you can make all you want but you should be heavily taxed, like the above chart indicates. We seemed to prosper just fine when the rich were appropriately taxed. Compared to where we are today... not so good.
    Are you going to claim that you weren't talking about tax rates and how they affected the broader economy? It makes sense that you'd be backing away from that position now, but it's pretty obvious that's what you were talking about then.

    You're now trying to make this about net wealth and tax revenue because you realized that your arguments re: income and the broader economy were losers.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  10. #60
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So disingenuous. Here's what you said:



    Are you going to claim that you weren't talking about tax rates and how they affected the broader economy? It makes sense that you'd be backing away from that position now, but it's pretty obvious that's what you were talking about then.

    You're now trying to make this about net wealth and tax revenue because you realized that your arguments re: income and the broader economy were losers.
    Ah no, his claim is that putting a high tax on the wealthy will stop them from working and therefore, there would be less jobs/higher unemployment/less innovation blah blah blah... all the Reaganomics talking points about how valuable the ultra-rich are. My argument was that our country fared just fine when the rates were high.

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •