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Thread: Stephen Lynch calls health care vote plan ‘disingenuous’

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    Re: Stephen Lynch calls health care vote plan ‘disingenuous’

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    If that's what you consider "total anarchy" then yes. Realistic people would see it as more freedom and more independence, whereas you see it as "total anarchy". It's your fear that without nanny Government to wipe your arse for you, you'd have to do something for yourself - or at least that's my perception. Lots of dependent types are like that.

    A little hard work shouldn't scare you.
    No, I mean conservatives literally support complete and total disbanding of the United States government in every single way and letting the entire nation fend for themselves. Because they favor smaller government.

    In exactly the same way that liberals support total government control of every aspect of our lives because we think health care is an essential service that should be strictly regulated.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Stephen Lynch calls health care vote plan ‘disingenuous’

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    And conservatives favor total anarchy, because they favor smaller government. They want to see our government become like those in central africa.
    I don't care what conservatives favor.
    I want what is the best choice, not the "insert political group" choice.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Stephen Lynch calls health care vote plan ‘disingenuous’

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, I mean conservatives literally support complete and total disbanding of the United States government in every single way and letting the entire nation fend for themselves. Because they favor smaller government.

    In exactly the same way that liberals support total government control of every aspect of our lives because we think health care is an essential service that should be strictly regulated.
    From watching how they've acted, and that is the only measure, since Reagan the Repubs have talked about small gov't on the campaign trail but, once they get in office they do everything they can to expand it. It's not liberals, or Dems, who insist on sticking their noses in every aspect of our personal lives.

    You're right that the Dems belief in Health Care Reform is more about them trying to help their fellow, less fortunate man, woman and child. So many on the right claim to be "Christians" yet, their going against Christ's teachings, on how to treat their fellow man, only shines a light on their continued hypocrisy. Repubs only concern in this Health Care Reform, and most issues, is to protect their net worth and their rich friends' bottom line.

    As Mitch McConnell has been exposed, they have had no interest in helping Obama in any of his plans to change things. They do not take their responsibilities to the American people as seriously as we expect them to. And I expect them to take a hit this November as a result.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
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    Re: Stephen Lynch calls health care vote plan ‘disingenuous’

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    From watching how they've acted, and that is the only measure, since Reagan the Repubs have talked about small gov't on the campaign trail but, once they get in office they do everything they can to expand it. It's not liberals, or Dems, who insist on sticking their noses in every aspect of our personal lives.

    You're right that the Dems belief in Health Care Reform is more about them trying to help their fellow, less fortunate man, woman and child. So many on the right claim to be "Christians" yet, their going against Christ's teachings, on how to treat their fellow man, only shines a light on their continued hypocrisy. Repubs only concern in this Health Care Reform, and most issues, is to protect their net worth and their rich friends' bottom line.

    As Mitch McConnell has been exposed, they have had no interest in helping Obama in any of his plans to change things. They do not take their responsibilities to the American people as seriously as we expect them to. And I expect them to take a hit this November as a result.
    Do you believe that everyone opposed to this health care bill is only concerned with personal wealth and income?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Stephen Lynch calls health care vote plan ‘disingenuous’

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Do you believe that everyone opposed to this health care bill is only concerned with personal wealth and income?
    For the most part, yes. There are other issues that certainly could use more attention. I guess the right word would be "selfish" for most who oppose this bill.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: Stephen Lynch calls health care vote plan ‘disingenuous’

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    For the most part, yes. There are other issues that certainly could use more attention. I guess the right word would be "selfish" for most who oppose this bill.
    I don't think you understand the opposition very well.

    Filter out the bull crap on tv and hear what the people who study it say.
    There is a whole lot more to it than money.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Stephen Lynch calls health care vote plan ‘disingenuous’

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I don't think you understand the opposition very well.

    Filter out the bull crap on tv and hear what the people who study it say.
    There is a whole lot more to it than money.
    "Ignorant," then. They could get the same health care for less money AND provide health care to the poor at the same time. Every other industrialized nation has managed to do it.

    (edit: I'm referring to single-payer, not this bill)
    Last edited by Deuce; 03-21-10 at 08:14 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Stephen Lynch calls health care vote plan ‘disingenuous’

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I don't think you understand the opposition very well.

    Filter out the bull crap on tv and hear what the people who study it say.
    There is a whole lot more to it than money.
    Like I said, "selfish" pretty much covers Repubs opposition to this.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: Stephen Lynch calls health care vote plan ‘disingenuous’

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    "Ignorant," then. They could get the same health care for less money AND provide health care to the poor at the same time. Every other industrialized nation has managed to do it.

    (edit: I'm referring to single-payer, not this bill)
    I think this has been pointed out a lot.

    The issue with single payer is differences between national populous make up.
    We can't compare, across the board, different countries using unadjusted statistical data.

    Life expectancy, infant survival rates, cost per person, etc are different for a multitude of reasons.

    Our demographics, diet, cultural lifestyle are completely different from Europe and Asian countries with UHC.

    The one single thing that no one is addressing is health behavior of individuals.
    Until you figure out how to get people to eat better, exercise, not do drugs etc, you will not be able to implement a successful, centralized UHC program or any other government health program for that matter.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Stephen Lynch calls health care vote plan ‘disingenuous’

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I think this has been pointed out a lot.

    The issue with single payer is differences between national populous make up.
    We can't compare, across the board, different countries using unadjusted statistical data.

    Life expectancy, infant survival rates, cost per person, etc are different for a multitude of reasons.

    Our demographics, diet, cultural lifestyle are completely different from Europe and Asian countries with UHC.

    The one single thing that no one is addressing is health behavior of individuals.
    Until you figure out how to get people to eat better, exercise, not do drugs etc, you will not be able to implement a successful, centralized UHC program or any other government health program for that matter.
    With dozens of countries and literal mountains of data to support the proposition that UHC leads to better outcome, you can't just handwave all of it away with "you can't compare the two systems!"

    The Aussies have obesity rates comparable to our own, and have a vastly lower population density which leads to higher infrastructure costs. The Canadians are basically our dorkier cousins. The French smoke like chimneys. The Irish will drink you under the table. Yes, they're all different, but thousands of sets of data just can't be dismissed like that. Our health problems aren't unique.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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