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Thread: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

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    Re: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    There are some really good arguments against the federal health care plan, but I don't see them in this thread. "Socialism ZOMMGGGG" is not logical and just makes your side look bad.

    I really enjoy reading posts from opponents to the plan who know what they're talking about.

    And just because Idaho will sue the Fed, it doesn't mean they'll actually succeed.
    Oh look, Orion, fresh from the duck and dodge and pretending him no know how to read the quote system, him all of a sudden is back! Not that he can address that which he fled from, but hey, him got real important opinions him thank you need to consider. Him have integrity! Chuckle.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-m...post1058623087

    Watch out, if you quote Encyclopedia Britannica to Orion, he drone on about an "obscure" reference! Chuckle.
    Last edited by Sir Loin; 03-18-10 at 02:57 AM.

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    Re: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

    So Hazlnut, what exactly does the Military "PRODUCE"? What do POLICE "Produce"? What does the Post Office "PRODUCE"?

    I'll give you a hint, not a damn thing.

    The Military is a Cosntitutionally mandated requirement to keep the Country safe.

    The Post Office serves the country in ensuring mail gets around, a novel idea for it's time, but the advent of Email, and companies like Fed EX and UPS show how little the Post Office is really in demand anymore.. that might explain why it's going bankrupt...

    And police... are a state function to maintain law and order... they don't PRODUCE anything.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    So Hazlnut, what exactly does the Military "PRODUCE"? What do POLICE "Produce"? What does the Post Office "PRODUCE"?
    What do doctors 'produce'? What do health care professionals 'produce'? If the standard for socialism is the production of a 'product'. Then why do you oppose Obama's plan for health care?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Well, Vance, let us look at the definition of 'socialism' shall we?

    WordNet Search - 3.0



    Who would you say "owns" the military? Who controls the means of production? The answer to both these questions is the same (if you read Marx, it starts with a "P").

    Would you disagree when I say that the military is almost entirely government run? The military is a publicly owned industry operated by the people. It provides those who work for it with benefits like housing, medicine and food on top of the salary they already get. You could even go to school almost free of charge when you're in the military. You know where you can go to university and pay almost no money? Cuba, Venezuela, Sweden. All countries that get regularly blasted for socialist systems that provide the same exact benefits to all their residents.

    Not only that but their entire recruitment campaigns are based on the very notion of working for a community. Army of One. If Obama's campaign went around saying 'A Country of One', we'd never hear the end of how it sounds like something straight out of the former USSR.

    If the government did any of these things outside of the military, we'd see people go out in the streets protesting the socialism of it all.

    Yet somehow, the socialism of the U.S. military is appealing. People every day join it so that they can get benefits in exchange for working for the government. I don't blame them.
    ----------------------



    I do not expect a right winger to actually know the meaning of socialism. So please, don't think I'm shocked that you think I make no sense when I say that the military is a socialist program. I'm glad to see you think the troops are inherently immoral and evil too.
    OK...lets stay with that...

    How is my decision to work for the federal government any different than you or anyone else choosing to work for ANY private employer? We both negotiate salaries and benefits packages (and make no mistake...the government does not 'provide' us housing or medical care. Every year we receive a statement declaring exactly what those services are worth as a componenet of our benefit package).

    When you hire on with ATT you are given a salary and the option to buy into insurance. Your salary is going to be CONSIDERABLY higher than that of the soldier working a comparable job. Again...its all part of that negotiation.

    ATT might ask you to go work in the field. If so you will likely be paid a per diem and maybe even hazardous duty pay. So too does the soldier.

    The soldier WORKS for the government. The government PAYS the soldier and honors the benefit it promised in return for no overtime pay, some pretty ugly working and living conditions, devastation to families, etc. Without the benefit and compensation package the government as employer offers it is highly unlikely that too many people would stay in and make it a career.

    Still looking for the socialized aspect.
    Last edited by VanceMack; 03-18-10 at 02:45 AM.

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    Re: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Navy, tell us all about how you ran the ship when you were a clerk. - Just so I can get UtahBill to put you in your place again.
    You can down my service or any other members service but at least we served in some capacity when our country called unlike you.............
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What do doctors 'produce'? What do health care professionals 'produce'? If the standard for socialism is the production of a 'product'. Then why do you oppose Obama's plan for health care?
    Because its the biggest rip off in the history of this country and its not paid for................
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    OK...lets stay with that...

    How is my decision to work for the federal government any different than you or anyone else choosing to work for ANY private employer? We both negotiate salaries and benefits packages (and make no mistake...the government does not 'provide' us housing or medical care. Every year we receive a statement declaring exactly what those services are worth as a componenet of our benefit package.

    When you hire on with ATT you are given a salary and the option to buy into insurance. Your salary is going to be CONSIDERABLY higher than that of the soldier working a comparable job. Again...its all part of that negotiation.

    ATT might aslk you to go work in the field. If so you will likely be paid a per diem and maybe even havardous duty pay. So too does the soldier.

    The soldier WORKS for the government. the government PAYS the soldier and honors the benefit it promised in return for no overtime pay, some pretty ugly working and living conditions, devastation to families, etc. Without the benefit and compensation package the government as employer offers it is highly unlikely that too many people would stay in and make it a career.

    Still looking for the socialized aspect.
    Regardless of whether you think signing a contract with the government and signing a contract with a private employer are the same things are the same thing, they have absolutely nothing to do with what socialism actually means.

    Socialism has to do with means of production. When they are completely operated by the government, they fall right inside the definition of what is socialism. The military provides a service. This service is provided to the people(to the proletariat), by the people(by the proletariat).
    Last edited by Hatuey; 03-18-10 at 02:58 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can down my service or any other members service but at least we served in some capacity when our country called unlike you.............
    Im gonna throw the flag on this one...

    Yes...I served in the military. And you. And lots of others. But 'service' os a relative term. teachers serve the country. Police officers serve the country. Farmers. Every average citizen that goes to work, pays taxes, and votes responsibly serfves the country.

    I couldnt do some of those jobs. I wouldnt want some of those people next to me doing my job. I volunteered...my choice.

    I dont downplay military service by ANY means...but lets just keep everything in perspective.

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    Re: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    So Hazlnut, what exactly does the Military "PRODUCE"? What do POLICE "Produce"? What does the Post Office "PRODUCE"?
    Oh, ye of limited education.

    They are all socialized institutions. If you don't understand that, get out of this thread, it's over your head.

    I'll give you a hint, not a damn thing.
    So, you believe in order to be socialized, something must produce a product like wigits? A service can not be socialized?

    Do you really believe that?

    That would mean that the NHS is not socialized medicine... right, Vicchio? I mean, they don't produce anything except babies, and health...

    The Military is a Cosntitutionally mandated requirement to keep the Country safe.

    Is it run with private or public funds?

    Socialized. Socialized. Socialized.

    The Post Office serves the country in ensuring mail gets around, a novel idea for it's time, but the advent of Email, and companies like Fed EX and UPS show how little the Post Office is really in demand anymore.. that might explain why it's going bankrupt...
    I guess you haven't been to the post office lately....

    And police... are a state function to maintain law and order... they don't PRODUCE anything.
    We need a smiley thingie that shows a person talking about his ass...

    Socialized.

    Keep revealing your total ignorance...

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    Re: Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can down my service or any other members service but at least we served in some capacity when our country called unlike you.............
    Please don't make me bring out Caine just so I can make you look like a hypocrite? I'm really starting to thinking you're just some 13 year old kid reading the diaries of his grandfather and making the rest up as he goes.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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