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Thread: "All Black People" Asked to Leave S. Jersey Wal-Mart

  1. #261
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    Re: "All Black People" Asked to Leave S. Jersey Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post

    If anything, the victims of this act are the ones likely to be subjected to public scorn and ridicule (more so than the initial act already caused them).
    the fact that some of you *actually* think that someone was a "victim" in this is even funnier than the absurd prank. Funny, but in a sad kind of way. I'll be glad when people like you stop holding people down and keeping them powerless and angry by constantly telling them how they're "victims" every time they turn around. Maybe when that stupid **** stops, we can all move on.

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    Re: "All Black People" Asked to Leave S. Jersey Wal-Mart

    It's like a 16 year-old Mark Fuhrman.

    Atlantic County teenager charged in bias incident at Washington Twp. Walmart | - NJ.com

    One other amusing part:

    Gloucester County Prosecutor Sean Dalton said the punishment for the crime, a fourth degree offense, would depend upon the if the accused has a prior record. Authorities also declined to give the prankster's race.

    Dalton said that does not factor into the prosecution.
    How, exactly, does his race not factor into the prosecution? Are they honestly claiming that if a black 16 year old said "All black people leave the store," they would prosecute him for "bias intimidation"?

    Either way, the case looks incredibly weak. The first two portions of the statute require a showing that the perpetrator either act with intent to intimidate or with the knowledge that his actions would intimidate. There's a pretty obvious defense to that claim. The third portion of the charge is very interesting, because it requires absolutely no mens rea on the part of the perpetrator:

    (3) under circumstances that caused any victim of the underlying offense to be intimidated and the victim, considering the manner in which the offense was committed, reasonably believed either that (a) the offense was committed with a purpose to intimidate the victim or any person or entity in whose welfare the victim is interested because of race, color, religion, gender, handicap, sexual orientation, or ethnicity,
    That means that you could be committing a bias crime even if you had absolutely no intend to do so, so long as 1) someone says they were intimidated, and 2) reasonably believed that the purpose of your statement was to intimidate them. That's a little ****ed up.

    However, the entire bias statute only applies where the state can prove an underlying crime - in this case, harassment. Harassment under NJ law requires a showing that the statement be made with the purpose of harassing the individuals in question. Again, there's the same fairly obvious defense that could be raised here.

    I'm guessing that the end result of this will be that in a couple weeks, once the press dies down, the kid will agree to perform 40 hours of community service in exchange for having the case dropped.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: "All Black People" Asked to Leave S. Jersey Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    What victims? Why do you feel it necessary to promote a victim mentality among black people? The was no crime in saying "All black people leave the store". There may have been a crime in using the PA, but in that case the victim is Walmart. The black people there were not victims.
    Saying something is wrong and not funny somehow makes us a victim??? +

    It makes us angry because knuckle heads think it is funny.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 03-20-10 at 04:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: "All Black People" Asked to Leave S. Jersey Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    the fact that some of you *actually* think that someone was a "victim" in this is even funnier than the absurd prank. Funny, but in a sad kind of way. I'll be glad when people like you stop holding people down and keeping them powerless and angry by constantly telling them how they're "victims" every time they turn around. Maybe when that stupid **** stops, we can all move on.
    Or maybe people who are doing the **** to create victims should be punished so that it stops. Because as we all know ignoring something does NOT make it go away.

    If someone can post an example of how ignoring a problem in society makes it go away I would love to see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: "All Black People" Asked to Leave S. Jersey Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Or maybe people who are doing the **** to create victims should be punished so that it stops. Because as we all know ignoring something does NOT make it go away.

    If someone can post an example of how ignoring a problem in society makes it go away I would love to see it.
    He should absolutely be punished. His parents should ground him, point out what an idiot he's being, and force him to go apologize to all of the people who were offended by this. The part that I strongly disagree with is the idea that this is a matter for the courts.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: "All Black People" Asked to Leave S. Jersey Wal-Mart

    I would have burst out in laughter had I been in the store when this happened. Stop calling it "racist". It is rather, a practical joke similar to the ones we see on televsion...should SNL be forced off the air? Should all comedians on cable be arrested? More power to the 16 year old. I think he has a bright future. What was your sense of humor like when YOU were 16?
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    Re: "All Black People" Asked to Leave S. Jersey Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    No........
    Of course not. You don't want to get suspended. Again.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    Re: "All Black People" Asked to Leave S. Jersey Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Either way, the case looks incredibly weak. The first two portions of the statute require a showing that the perpetrator either act with intent to intimidate or with the knowledge that his actions would intimidate. There's a pretty obvious defense to that claim. The third portion of the charge is very interesting, because it requires absolutely no mens rea on the part of the perpetrator:



    That means that you could be committing a bias crime even if you had absolutely no intend to do so, so long as 1) someone says they were intimidated, and 2) reasonably believed that the purpose of your statement was to intimidate them. That's a little ****ed up.

    However, the entire bias statute only applies where the state can prove an underlying crime - in this case, harassment. Harassment under NJ law requires a showing that the statement be made with the purpose of harassing the individuals in question. Again, there's the same fairly obvious defense that could be raised here.

    I'm guessing that the end result of this will be that in a couple weeks, once the press dies down, the kid will agree to perform 40 hours of community service in exchange for having the case dropped.
    I am frankly amazed that this is a crime in NJ law. It is like a Hate Law and I didn't think we had those due to 1st Amendment protections. Your link to the statute goes on to say:

    except that where the underlying crime is a crime of the first degree, bias intimidation is a first-degree crime and the defendant upon conviction thereof may, notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (1) of subsection a. of N.J.S.2C:43-6, be sentenced to an ordinary term of imprisonment between 15 years and 30 years, with a presumptive term of 20 years
    Holy ****!

  9. #269
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    Re: "All Black People" Asked to Leave S. Jersey Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    I would have burst out in laughter had I been in the store when this happened. Stop calling it "racist". It is rather, a practical joke similar to the ones we see on televsion...should SNL be forced off the air? Should all comedians on cable be arrested? More power to the 16 year old. I think he has a bright future. What was your sense of humor like when YOU were 16?
    Context. Watching comments like this on SNL are completely different from this incident.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #270
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    Re: "All Black People" Asked to Leave S. Jersey Wal-Mart

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    He should absolutely be punished. His parents should ground him, point out what an idiot he's being, and force him to go apologize to all of the people who were offended by this. The part that I strongly disagree with is the idea that this is a matter for the courts.
    I agree, I pointed out the boycotts etc are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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