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Thread: Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

  1. #51
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    Re: Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

    Prof is absolutely right.

    Fica is just a tax wrapped in package called a "retirement benefit". Basically, you give the government $1, and in 40 years, they give you back a nickel.

    And it STILL went bankrupt. How is that possible?

  2. #52
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    Re: Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Are you serious? That's sort of how a free market works.

    Using your logic, why would any company pay you more than $5/hour? I mean, as long as every company does that, then it's not possible for you to make more.
    The free market works by people and business's paying what they have to pay for items or services they want.

    No good business would pay more in salary or benifits then they would have to according to the market for that particular position, modified by the skill and experience of the particular person in that position

    If you were willing to work in a particular position for $60 grand, the company will not just give you the extra 6.2% from their part of FICA. THey would have to see the need to pay it in order to keep you at the position. Otherwise they would keep it and make more money for the owners. To do otherwise would be a betrayal to the shareholders of the company. Providing wages out of charity is not what a company should be doing
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  3. #53
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    Re: Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    and even at THAT the system's bankrupt

    the great jack kemp, quarterback of the buffalo bills and loser bob dole's veep candidate in 96, made soc sec reform his #1 baby probably in honor of so many of his heroic teammates

    kemp was always talking about the massive ripoff soc sec stole from african americans

    may he rip
    Social Security is not bankrupt, it has a couple of trillion in reserve

    Seconly Social Security is not a retirment program, it is a program that was designed to keep Americans from abject poverty when they retire.

    However Americans continued to vote to expand it to cover more and more things and people
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    Re: Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

    at $500 a month for some poor schmo making 40K it better not be

    it better not be insolvent, swallowing whole the largest contributions of those who don't make it to the sneakily advancing retirement age

    it better not be bankrupt with that kinda money coming in

    but unfortunately it is

    and you know better

    upside down starting in 2016

    the boomers

    the unfunded liabilities

    the out years

    the need to raise the tax (again), raise the retirement age (again), lower benefits (again), or some combo thereof (again)...

    Report Warns of Insolvency for Social Security, Medicare - washingtonpost.com

    FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS A MONTH FOR RETIREMENT! FOR OUR POOR GRANDKIDS JUST STARTING OUT!

    and there aint gonna be squat there for em by the time they get there

    a terrible tragedy, the scale so great

    mao was a much bigger ripoff but his victims just didn't have so much for him to take

    soc sec is the greatest boondoggle in human history

  5. #55
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    Re: Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The free market works by people and business's paying what they have to pay for items or services they want.

    No good business would pay more in salary or benifits then they would have to according to the market for that particular position, modified by the skill and experience of the particular person in that position

    If you were willing to work in a particular position for $60 grand, the company will not just give you the extra 6.2% from their part of FICA. THey would have to see the need to pay it in order to keep you at the position. Otherwise they would keep it and make more money for the owners. To do otherwise would be a betrayal to the shareholders of the company. Providing wages out of charity is not what a company should be doing
    I think you're misunderstanding how this works.

    If a company is paying you $100k under the current system, they actually think your work is work $106k. That's what they set aside to compensate you and to keep you from going somewhere else. If a competitor wanted to hire you away and pay you $110k, they would be setting aside $117k to do so.

    If the SS tax were placed entirely on employers, then the $12k cost would come out of what they were prepared to pay you - meaning you'd take home around $94k and the competitor would be willing to offer $103k.

    If the SS tax were placed entirely on employees, we'd see the reverse - the company could offer you the entire $106k, while the competitor would be free to up that to $117k.

    The company is not offering you charity, nor are they doling out any extra money. In all three scenarios, they're offering you the exact same compensation - the only difference is who actually writes the check to the government.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 03-18-10 at 11:40 PM.
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    Re: Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

    absolutely, any payroll tax is a downward pressure on pay, on wage, it should be obvious

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    Re: Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I think you're misunderstanding how this works.

    If a company is paying you $100k under the current system, they actually think your work is work $106k. That's what they set aside to compensate you and to keep you from going somewhere else. If a competitor wanted to hire you away and pay you $110k, they would be setting aside $117k to do so.

    If the SS tax were placed entirely on employers, then the $12k cost would come out of what they were prepared to pay you - meaning you'd take home around $94k and the competitor would be willing to offer $103k.

    If the SS tax were placed entirely on employees, we'd see the reverse - the company could offer you the entire $106k, while the competitor would be free to up that to $117k.

    The company is not offering you charity, nor are they doling out any extra money. In all three scenarios, they're offering you the exact same compensation - the only difference is who actually writes the check to the government.
    They are not offering you the same compensation, they are paying less tax.

    And the only way you would see more money is if the competition decided to pay you more, and in order to keep you the company had to pay you more.

    No one would automatically get the money the company previously paid in payroll tax, they would only do so if they had to due to competition
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    Re: Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    They are not offering you the same compensation, they are paying less tax.
    On the margins, you're correct. But for the most part, it's interchangeable.

    And the only way you would see more money is if the competition decided to pay you more, and in order to keep you the company had to pay you more.

    No one would automatically get the money the company previously paid in payroll tax, they would only do so if they had to due to competition
    That's the idea behind the free market.
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    Re: Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Fica is just a tax wrapped in package called a "retirement benefit". Basically, you give the government $1, and in 40 years, they give you back a nickel.

    And it STILL went bankrupt. How is that possible?
    did you miss the part where this was run by the government?



    we're going to get rid of the cap, and severely reduce benefits; either through means testing, raising the retirement age, fixing COLA to inflation rather than the consumer price index, or all three.


    OR we will try to "take the easy way out" and just print more money. that always works.



    take a wild guess which one will be politically easier?

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    Re: Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    No good business would pay more in salary or benefits then they would have to according to the market for that particular position, modified by the skill and experience of the particular person in that position
    Not always so. There are efficiency wages (overtime is a good example). Paying above the market wage can have long run benefits in both productivity and decreased turnover risk.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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