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Thread: Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

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    Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

    BBC News - Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

    There was suspicion that Obama is a closet anti-Semite, he then reached out to the powerful Jewish community and they ended up rallying around him.

    Now, Israeli/US relations are in the toilet. Is this because of Israeli actions alone, or is it because of the Muslim-loving US president, who has a dislike for Jews and Israel?

    Israel's ambassador to the US has said that relations between the two countries face their worst crisis for 35 years, Israeli media have reported.

    Last week Israeli officials announced the building of 1,600 new homes in occupied East Jerusalem while US Vice-President Joe Biden was visiting.

    The move was seen as an insult to the US and Palestinian leaders say indirect talks with Israel are now "doubtful".

    EU foreign policy head Baroness Ashton said Israel had put the talks at risk.

    Addressing members of the Arab League in Cairo, she said Israel's move had "endangered and undermined the tentative agreement to begin proximity talks".

    She added: "The EU position on settlements is clear. Settlements are illegal, constitute an obstacle to peace and threaten to make a two state-solution impossible."

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    Re: Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    There was suspicion that Obama is a closet anti-Semite, he then reached out to the powerful Jewish community and they ended up rallying around him.

    Now, Israeli/US relations are in the toilet. Is this because of Israeli actions alone, or is it because of the Muslim-loving US president, who has a dislike for Jews and Israel?
    First, there is no credible evidence that the President is anti-semitic.

    Second, the situation is the result of a combination of at least three factors:

    1. The timing of the announcement was the result of a tone-deaf bureaucrat who is essentially blind to the larger policy context, not a deliberate change in Israel's policy. The Interior Minister should have known that timing his announcement would have created a backlash.

    2. Clumsy U.S. policy. The Administration, while rightly focusing on diplomacy in the foreign policy theater, appears to have a surprisingly poor understanding of Israel and its needs. The U.S. is a large state and is bordered by friendly neighbors. Israel is tiny and has hostile actors on its borders. Precisely because of its geographic depth and location among friendly states, the U.S. can afford to take larger risks than Israel. For the U.S., the margin of error is far larger than for Israel.

    The new U.S. approach that laid out four conditions to Israel rests on the naive assumption that Israel only has to make "good faith" unilateral concessions to bring about a more flexible and cooperative Palestinian approach. That assumption has been disproved time and again. Palestinian success in gaining unilateral concessions has encouraged further implacability on their part. Should the current U.S. pressure succeed in extracting fresh substantive concessions from Israel, the Palestinians would gain an incentive to ignore Israeli objections to wait for Washington to compel Israel to produce such concessions that the Palestinians could not hope to obtain on their own.

    3. A poor understanding of how to carry out diplomacy. Diplomacy should never be run in an ad hoc fashion that swerves wildly from a grounding in interests. It should not be used to publicly humiliate, much less dictate to an ally a variety of terms that may run counter to its own interests, all in a fit of pique over a disagreement that is relatively minor in the larger foreign policy context. It should never become decoupled from critical interests.

    After VP Biden expressed his criticism, that should have been the end of the matter. The "piling on" in recent days and not too subtle effort to dictate what Israel must do to demonstrate its commitment to the U.S.-Israel relationship has been anything but helpful, both with respect to the U.S.-Israel bilateral relationship and in terms of creating a better environment for peacemaking.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 03-15-10 at 01:30 PM.

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    Re: Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

    Obama should stay out of the Israel's affairs and vice versa.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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    Re: Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

    Woah woah woah.... woah......... woah

    Are you serious?

    Because Obama does not support the state that is unwilling to negotiate, even though they technically took Israel from the rest of the world... that makes Obama an anti-semite?

    Do you know why the Jews have control of Israel?

    You might want to look into the history of the area after WWII.

    Let me fill you in on what I understand...

    The area was a British controlled state during and before WWII. After WWII the Brits decided to give the Jewish community parts of Palestine (today known as Israel), I'm guessing because they felt bad for the Jews after the horrors they endured under the Nazis. A long war then ensued between the Jews and the surrounding countries (Iraq, Egypt, Iran, etc) over control of the area because the Palestinians did not agree that the area should be given exclusively to the Jews... and the Jews held off the invading forces. After that they expanded their control over the area, taking more Palestinian land, and today we have the state of Israel, and a continuing war in the area.

    Though I do believe that the Jews do have a right to land where they are free from oppression, I do not believe the choice the Brits made was the right one. The area should have been shared between the Jews and the Palestinians.
    Last edited by Jucon; 03-15-10 at 01:09 PM.

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    Re: Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    Woah woah woah.... woah......... woah

    Are you serious?

    Because Obama does not support the state that is unwilling to negotiate, even though they technically took Israel from the rest of the world... that makes Obama an anti-semite?

    Do you know why the Jews have control of Israel?

    You might want to look into the history of the area after WWII.

    Let me fill you in on what I understand...

    The area was a British controlled state during and before WWII. After WWII the Brits decided to give the Jewish community parts of Palestine (today known as Israel), I'm guessing because they felt bad for the Jews after the horrors they endured under the Nazis. A long war then ensued between the Jews and the surrounding countries (Iraq, Egypt, Iran, etc) over control of the area because the Palestinians did not agree that the area should be given exclusively to the Jews... and the Jews held off the invading forces. After that they expanded their control over the area, taking more Palestinian land, and today we have the state of Israel, and a continuing war in the area.

    Though I do believe that the Jews do have a right to land where they are free from oppression, I do not believe the choice the Brits made was the right one. The area should have been shared between the Jews and the Palestinians.
    Obama was suspected of sympathizing with Antisemitism because of some of his past associations. There is a deep animosity and resentment in much of the Black community towards the high achieving and successful Jewish community. Obama attended a church that included many who viewed Jews negatively. Obama's political base was in this setting.

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    Re: Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    Obama was suspected of sympathizing with Antisemitism because of some of his past associations. There is a deep animosity and resentment in much of the Black community towards the high achieving and successful Jewish community. Obama attended a church that included many who viewed Jews negatively. Obama's political base was in this setting.
    I have the same outrage towards Israel as the Obama administration... and I am neither anti-semitic nor pro-Muslim. In fact I am part Jewish! I simply want peace in the area, and the Israelis continue to show they will only push for peace when they have full control over the area and have cities all over the place, making it nearly impossible to split up the land fairly. They shouldn't even split up the land... it should simply be shared equally.

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    Re: Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

    I think Obama just wants to grow closer to the PLO and Arab states by joining in the anti Israel bashing. I think his criticism is somewhat valid, but to be honest I don't see him going to the PLO and talking about how they are obstacles to peace. Israel is entitled to all of East Jerusalem. Obama should understand and respect that. Again, I mainly see this as Obama sucking up to the Arabs and Palestinians.

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    Re: Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Israel is entitled to all of East Jerusalem.
    Help me understand why

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    Re: Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    Help me understand why
    they gained control during the '67 war I believe. Plus it's part of Jerusalem, the capitol of Israel. It is also more important to Jewish history and the Islamic rulers have proven to be discriminatory when running certain areas of the city. I'll have to look up some history regarding the war, but East Jerusalem certainly does not belong to the Palestinians and should be completely Israel's.

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    Re: Ties between Israel and US 'worst in 35 years'

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Obama should stay out of the Israel's affairs and vice versa.
    This I can agree with. **** Israel, let them do as they want. They're a big boy country, they don't need any of our assistance or military equipment or funding or any of it. They can do things for themselves. We can have friendly diplomatic relations with them, but that's about it. Nothing else. Friends with all, entangling alliances with none.
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