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Thread: 'Hit teams' attack US consular staff, families in Mexico: US

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    Re: 'Hit teams' attack US consular staff, families in Mexico: US

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Times are bad in Mexico, but the latest attacks are acts of war. I am not against bombing runs on the homes of cartel members for starters. The way I see it, if the Mexican government can't do the job it needs to do, then we should do it for them.

    Article is here.
    Instead of invading Mexico, we should just end the Federal war on drug users.

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    Re: 'Hit teams' attack US consular staff, families in Mexico: US

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    In absolute terms, yes. In relative terms, use is relatively equivalent across ethnicities. Of course, absolutely none of this has anything to do with the sentencing disparity which you're referring to.



    Again, you're making the entirely unwarranted assumption that harsher penalties will lead to drastically reduced demand, and the additional assumption that said reduced demand will put an end to drug violence in Mexico. There's absolutely nothing to support either of those claims.
    How many people speed on the open highway where the chance of getting pulled over for speeding is low? How many people speed in a playground zone where the chance of getting caught is quite high?

    How many guys will take a piss in an alley way where they wont get caught, as opposed to taking a piss in the middle of the street?

    For a casual user harsher penalties combined with stricter enforcement will lead to less use. It follows the risk to reward patern that alot of behaviour is based on. The reward offered by doing coke on the weekend with friends while watching the football game might be worth getting a misdemenor charge or perhaps just a warning, it might not be worth going to jail for 30 days min

    Secondly as the for the violence will it end it? No reduce it drastically yes. And it also comes down to risk and reward. Risking ones life to transport 100 kg of coke acrross the boarder for something worth $6 million when broke down for sale to the individual is worth it. Doing the same when you might get $400 000 (of course profit is quite a bit less for each person involved)

    It is because the US drug market is so valuable that encourages the violence in the drug trade in mexico. Alot of money is being made, and lots of money means lots of reward for the risk
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    Re: 'Hit teams' attack US consular staff, families in Mexico: US

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    How many people speed on the open highway where the chance of getting pulled over for speeding is low? How many people speed in a playground zone where the chance of getting caught is quite high?

    How many guys will take a piss in an alley way where they wont get caught, as opposed to taking a piss in the middle of the street?

    For a casual user harsher penalties combined with stricter enforcement will lead to less use. It follows the risk to reward patern that alot of behaviour is based on.
    Except it doesn't really work like that in practice.

    If you traffic cocaine (powder or crack) in relatively small amounts, there is a mandatory sentence of 5, 10, or 20 years in federal prison depending on amount. That's pretty ****ing harsh. Despite that, prosecutions for both powder and crack trafficking have risen steadily over the past 15 years.

    We already have insanely high penalties for these things. They don't work.

    The reward offered by doing coke on the weekend with friends while watching the football game might be worth getting a misdemenor charge or perhaps just a warning, it might not be worth going to jail for 30 days min
    I think you're mistaken about how cocaine sentencing actually works. The disparity that you initially referred to only deals with drug traffickers, not casual users. In fact, the reforms that you're theoretically backing would actually have the effect of reducing punishment on low level users like you're referring to.

    Secondly as the for the violence will it end it? No reduce it drastically yes.
    Saying it doesn't make it so. I just don't get why you think this. We already have insanely harsh drug laws in this country. Why would making them harsher do anything positive?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: 'Hit teams' attack US consular staff, families in Mexico: US

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Again, you're making the entirely unwarranted assumption that harsher penalties will lead to drastically reduced demand, and the additional assumption that said reduced demand will put an end to drug violence in Mexico. There's absolutely nothing to support either of those claims.
    You really believe a reduced demand for drugs in the US won't decrease the drug violence in Mexico? Who do you think they are selling that crap to, the Mayans?

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    Re: 'Hit teams' attack US consular staff, families in Mexico: US

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    You really believe a reduced demand for drugs in the US won't decrease the drug violence in Mexico? Who do you think they are selling that crap to, the Mayans?
    Where exactly did I say that? Reread my post and the one I'm responding to.

    I never said that a reduced demand for drugs will have no impact on Mexican drug violence, as I think it's quite possible that it will have some impact.

    What I did say was:

    1) It would not eliminate Mexican drug violence like LT claimed
    2) Increased penalties for drug use will not significantly reduce demand like LT claimed
    3) Any decrease in demand on our end will be minuscule
    4) Any concurrent reduction in violence will be equally minuscule
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: 'Hit teams' attack US consular staff, families in Mexico: US

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    How many decades have we been at war with various cartels already? Kill one leader, or take out one cartel, and 5 wanna be's go to war to replace the one that got killed. It is war with a hydra, cut off one head and you get multiple replacements - and survival of the fittest means they just get bigger and badder. So long as there are billions of dollars of black market proceeds to kill or be killed for, then the cartels and the violence will continue, regardless of how ferociously we play whack-a-mole.
    See, I don't believe that for one minute. I think that if we bring destructive force down on their networks, they require time to rebuild. We have to be able to find the plantations where they grow the plants to make the cocaine and heroine. Why aren't we napalming the hell out of those sites? I know we are capable finding their production centers. So why aren't we bombing these.

    I also like the idea of bombing the cartel leader's houses. The more time they spend on the run or fighting amongst one another for supremacy, the less time they are spending running their drugs and killing civilians and consulate workers.

    Sweeping, massive responses. That's what's needed. And leaving smoking craters everywhere we know to be a stronghold of the cartels.

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    Re: 'Hit teams' attack US consular staff, families in Mexico: US

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    See, I don't believe that for one minute. I think that if we bring destructive force down on their networks, they require time to rebuild. We have to be able to find the plantations where they grow the plants to make the cocaine and heroine. Why aren't we napalming the hell out of those sites? I know we are capable finding their production centers. So why aren't we bombing these.

    I also like the idea of bombing the cartel leader's houses. The more time they spend on the run or fighting amongst one another for supremacy, the less time they are spending running their drugs and killing civilians and consulate workers.

    Sweeping, massive responses. That's what's needed. And leaving smoking craters everywhere we know to be a stronghold of the cartels.
    Not that I don't appreciate your love of smoking craters and dead bodies (), but if we could pursue a policy that minimized collateral damage, saved tax dollars, and perhaps lessened the overall incentive for criminals to participate in the black market, shouldn't we look into that first before we committed ourselves militarily to eliminating the cartels? Not that we shouldn't respond to this, I think we should send a couple SEAL teams to hunt these cowards down, but I think the more fundamental, underlying problems of the drug war should be addressed within the context of this recent occurrence.

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    Re: 'Hit teams' attack US consular staff, families in Mexico: US

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Not that I don't appreciate your love of smoking craters and dead bodies (), but if we could pursue a policy that minimized collateral damage, saved tax dollars, and perhaps lessened the overall incentive for criminals to participate in the black market, shouldn't we look into that first before we committed ourselves militarily to eliminating the cartels? Not that we shouldn't respond to this, I think we should send a couple SEAL teams to hunt these cowards down, but I think the more fundamental, underlying problems of the drug war should be addressed within the context of this recent occurrence.
    I will agree we should do other things in conjunction with my approach, for sure. Take a holistic approach to the matter, so to speak. However, what needs to be understood is that we're not dealing with a country and its diplomats here. We are dealing with ruthless, cutthroat criminals and murderers. We can't be expected to use administrative policy changes alone to curb their activity. We have to speak their language.

    I also like other approaches...attractive monetary bounties on their heads. Rely on their base human natures to cause division in their ranks. 10,000,000USD and asylum in our country in exchange for the head off a list of cartel bosses we want. Deliver it to any US embassy and once the kill is confirmed, you get the money and passage to the US.

    But I do think our first response to violence like this should be a smoking crater at one of their homes. Actually, all their homes just to make sure we got the right one.

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    Re: 'Hit teams' attack US consular staff, families in Mexico: US

    A few easy solutions:

    1. Legalize all drugs

    2. For every American life, we take 100 of them start by bombing cartel leaders and their capos including family and friends.


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    Re: 'Hit teams' attack US consular staff, families in Mexico: US

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    See, I don't believe that for one minute. I think that if we bring destructive force down on their networks, they require time to rebuild. We have to be able to find the plantations where they grow the plants to make the cocaine and heroine. Why aren't we napalming the hell out of those sites? I know we are capable finding their production centers. So why aren't we bombing these.

    I also like the idea of bombing the cartel leader's houses. The more time they spend on the run or fighting amongst one another for supremacy, the less time they are spending running their drugs and killing civilians and consulate workers.

    Sweeping, massive responses. That's what's needed. And leaving smoking craters everywhere we know to be a stronghold of the cartels.
    Yeah, because that worked so well with Pablo Escobar.

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