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Thread: Democrats move toward grouping health reform with student-aid bill

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    Re: Democrats move toward grouping health reform with student-aid bill

    I posted about this attempt on differnt HC threads. This is typical WO BS. So if anyone votes no because of the rider, watch they will be labeled as not wanting HC reform.

    time to vote for a change. that is vote them all out.
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    Re: Democrats move toward grouping health reform with student-aid bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You don't think the bold line there has anything to do with your own personal slant, maybe?


    Unpopular does not make something inherently bad. Hypothetical: You have a bill you believe will help your constituents, but they are dead set against it. Is your duty to enact it, or NOT enact it?
    All I'm saying is I don't claim to know of all the bad things Republican's have done (I am not denying anything bad they have done). What I am saying is that to my knowledge the Republicans haven't dishonestly snuck in major legislation to another bill, especially when the majority of America doesn't want it. My main point was this comment and regardless we need to live in the present and not look to the past to excuse bad behavior. What the Democrats are doing is shady, Dishonest, and very wrong, no one else's behavior excuses this or makes it any less dastardly.

    And being unpopular doesn't make something bad, you are correct on that. However, senators are elected to represent their constituents in congress. If senators break away from this they are typically not elected again. People vote for the one that shares most of their beliefs. It's arrogant to look at constituents and say "I'm right, your wrong" and not listen to their arguments or voice. It's also wrong to vote on bribes (like LA and NE) and to only allow like minded individuals to shape legislation (like how the Dems have isolated the Republicans and only allowed a select few Dems to write legislation behind closed doors).

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    Re: Democrats move toward grouping health reform with student-aid bill

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    All I'm saying is I don't claim to know of all the bad things Republican's have done (I am not denying anything bad they have done). What I am saying is that to my knowledge the Republicans haven't dishonestly snuck in major legislation to another bill, especially when the majority of America doesn't want it. My main point was this comment and regardless we need to live in the present and not look to the past to excuse bad behavior. What the Democrats are doing is shady, Dishonest, and very wrong, no one else's behavior excuses this or makes it any less dastardly.

    And being unpopular doesn't make something bad, you are correct on that. However, senators are elected to represent their constituents in congress. If senators break away from this they are typically not elected again. People vote for the one that shares most of their beliefs. It's arrogant to look at constituents and say "I'm right, your wrong" and not listen to their arguments or voice. It's also wrong to vote on bribes (like LA and NE) and to only allow like minded individuals to shape legislation (like how the Dems have isolated the Republicans and only allowed a select few Dems to write legislation behind closed doors).
    It's only arrogant to not listen to them at all, it's not arrogant when you do listen to them, determine that their concerns are based on falsehoods told by the opposing party, and ignore their concerns based on that.

    Democrats isolated Republicans? That's a laugh. They've reached out for over a year and have incorporated many of their ideas. The public option is out, abortion language getting strengthened possibly, strengthening language against illegal immigrants being provided care (despite that having been spelled out VERY clearly to begin with) the across-state lines deal, etc etc.

    Half the bill is conforming to GOP ideas or concerns. Even the crazy ones that didn't make any sense. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been paying attention.

    (edit: Or just believes Fox News when they tell people Republicans have been shut out)
    Last edited by Deuce; 03-12-10 at 08:58 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Democrats move toward grouping health reform with student-aid bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It's only arrogant to not listen to them at all, it's not arrogant when you do listen to them, determine that their concerns are based on falsehoods told by the opposing party, and ignore their concerns based on that.
    And it doesn't pass the laugh test to claim that republicans are lying their teeth off while democrats are innocent little lambs. Your side has the bully pulpit, the majority of both houses, much of industry consent bought and paid for, and initially had public support. The idea that Republicans were able to swamp all of that simply by telling some lies is pure naivete.

    Democrats isolated Republicans? That's a laugh. They've reached out for over a year and have incorporated many of their ideas. The public option is out, abortion language getting strengthened possibly, strengthening language against illegal immigrants being provided care (despite that having been spelled out VERY clearly to begin with) the across-state lines deal, etc etc.
    That's democrat compromise to bring in Republicans? Funny, because I thought that the vast majority of what you're mentioning was done because Democrats didn't have enough support from their own caucus.

    Half the bill is conforming to GOP ideas or concerns. Even the crazy ones that didn't make any sense. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been paying attention.
    I don't think you're not paying attention, I think you're just hearing what you want to hear. Obama agrees to implement a few tiny and inconsequential GOP proposals, claims that he's being bipartisan, and you accept that as truth. That's just not what's happening.
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    Re: Democrats move toward grouping health reform with student-aid bill

    You seem to think "bipartisan" means "Republicans get equal say."

    You're the minority party because more people voted Team Blue. It's going to be lopsided in favor of the majority, that's how it works.

    Besides, Democrats could have pushed a bill dropping all federal gun bans, and Republicans would still vote against it because it's Democrats doing it.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Democrats move toward grouping health reform with student-aid bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You seem to think "bipartisan" means "Republicans get equal say."
    No, you seem to think "including a few token inconsequential Republican proposals" = "half the bill is GOP ideas." You're the one who made that absurd claim, not me.

    You're the minority party because more people voted Team Blue. It's going to be lopsided in favor of the majority, that's how it works.
    And that's perfectly fine. If they want to ram a bill through, they're free to do so. What they don't get to do is ram a bill through and then lie about how they made every possible effort to be inclusive.

    Besides, Democrats could have pushed a bill dropping all federal gun bans, and Republicans would still vote against it because it's Democrats doing it.
    It's almost like they're politicians! Fortunately, your party has never been responsible for such hypocrisy.
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    Re: Democrats move toward grouping health reform with student-aid bill

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post

    And that's perfectly fine. If they want to ram a bill through, they're free to do so. What they don't get to do is ram a bill through and then lie about how they made every possible effort to be inclusive.
    "Ram the bill through." Favorite GOP catchphrase these days. I call it "pass a bill with your house and senate majority."

    It's almost like they're politicians! Fortunately, your party has never been responsible for such hypocrisy.
    Oh they most certainly have. I've criticized the Democrats plenty. They're a bunch of utterly inept pussies. They're continuing the Bush era attacks on our civil liberties without so much as missing a step. They continue to spend utterly absurd amounts of money on this generation's biggest military fiasco. They're completely in the grips of corporate lobbyists just like the Republicans are. I mean, jesus, we're getting a bill that forces us to buy insurance from private companies and it doesn't do any sort of significant cost controls.

    I oppose the current form of the bill, for the record.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Democrats move toward grouping health reform with student-aid bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    "Ram the bill through." Favorite GOP catchphrase these days. I call it "pass a bill with your house and senate majority."
    However you want to term it, my point remains - they're going about getting the bill enacted in a method that will require no Republican support whatsoever. They don't get to do that and then pretend that they're being inclusive.
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    Re: Democrats move toward grouping health reform with student-aid bill

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    However you want to term it, my point remains - they're going about getting the bill enacted in a method that will require no Republican support whatsoever. They don't get to do that and then pretend that they're being inclusive.
    They're doing it that way because they've finally come to understand that there literally is no bill the GOP would vote for right now.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  10. #20
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    Re: Democrats move toward grouping health reform with student-aid bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    They're doing it that way because they've finally come to understand that there literally is no bill the GOP would vote for right now.
    I think you're wildly underestimating the Dems. Both sides are quite good at politics - the idea that the Dems are somehow surprised by the Reps actions or that they're being unwillingly forced to resort to this last-ditch effort doesn't really give them much credit.

    Again, if you think that the dems spent the past year making every effort in good faith to bring the Reps in, only to be burned repeatedly and finally forced into taking this drastic action, then I think you're far more trusting in imagery than I am.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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