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Thread: Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

  1. #51
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    Re: Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    For me, it's not so much that I oppose the concept of removing it as I don't support the idea of filing lawsuits to remove all the vestiges of objectionable material from public life. If Congress voted to remove "under God" from the pledge tomorrow, I can't say I'd care. I just can't stand people like Newdow and his ilk, so I refuse to encourage them.
    Oh I agree completely with that. This is one guy who doesn't like the fact that "under God" is in the pledge. If it were Congress that removed it that would be a completely different story. It shouldn't be changed because one guy files a lawsuit because he feels that he is somehow personally being persecuted.

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    Re: Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Which means what? I'm not citing the religious tone of the anthem as proof that we should all bow down to worship a Presbyterian god, but rather as a counterpoint to the implication advanced by some that the pledge's reference to god is:

    1) The only religious reference in our official culture, and
    2) Proof that all of said references are solely the result of an anti-communist propagandist.

    The fact is that there have been similar offhand and nonspecific references to religious deitys throughout the history of our nation. While this one might have been added more recently, that doesn't make it particularly unconstitutional.

    For me, it's not so much that I oppose the concept of removing it as I don't support the idea of filing lawsuits to remove all the vestiges of objectionable material from public life. If Congress voted to remove "under God" from the pledge tomorrow, I can't say I'd care. I just can't stand people like Newdow and his ilk, so I refuse to encourage them.
    I think my ultimate dislike of the phrase in the pledge is not that it references God. I am good with that. But I have associations (and I am not saying they are reasonable) of that particular phrase being less about God and more about the desire that many have for christian conservative culture to be the dominant culture of the country. I see it as their attempt to shove their culture down my throat.

    Really, my distaste for the phrase is the same distaste that I have when people say things like "liberals are not true americans" or "my country, love it or leave it".

    In fact, if it said, "one country under Jesus" or "one country under the Trinity" or some other more specific reference, it would not bother me one bit. However, it would be technically inaccurate since this country has other religious faiths besides Christianity and it also does not account for atheists.

    That and if I look at it, the whole idea of a pledge for a free country makes no sense to me since it seems oxymoronish. But I would be completely neutral to that fact if it wasn't for what I see to be an attempt at cultural indoctrination.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-12-10 at 09:15 AM.

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    Re: Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Removing "under God" has nothing to do with attacking religion. It's about returning the Pledge to it's original intended purpose, which is to show your loyalty to this country.
    Are you seriously suggesting that for everyone, or even a majority of the people, in the "remove 'under god' from the Pledge" movement that it has NOTHING to do with attacking / being displeased with religion?

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    Re: Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

    The way I see it is, if you don't want to say "under God" when you recite the pledge, then don't say it. No one will arrest you. If you don't want to recite the pledge altogether, then don't recite the pledge. (Only a P.O.S. prick-person would make an issue of that.)

    But goddammit, there are millions and millions of us out here that stand and say it proudly and we will always include the words "under God,"

    Why do people have to go and nit pick little bull**** things that, at the end of the day, don't mean **** to a tree.

    I don't need a court to uphold or strikedown what I can or cannot say when I make my pledges. For a moderate conservative, I can be pretty liberal, socially, but on bull**** issues like this, I just wanna strangle those whiney ass liberal types who think they should decide what I do or do not say when, or if, I recite the pledge. Nit-pickin' bastards. Back the **** off. Don't tread on me. **** 'em.

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    Re: Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Well considering one of our governments founding principles is separation of church and state and the phrase seems to acknowledge that we serve a particular god named "God". You can pretend all you want that it doesn't refer to the "god" of abraham all you want. Its actually an important issue to many of us who consider ourselves outside of the homogenized christian community.
    Well, the other great thing about America is if you don't want to say The Pledge of Allegiance, you don't have to.

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    Re: Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Which means what? I'm not citing the religious tone of the anthem as proof that we should all bow down to worship a Presbyterian god, but rather as a counterpoint to the implication advanced by some that the pledge's reference to god is:

    1) The only religious reference in our official culture, and
    2) Proof that all of said references are solely the result of an anti-communist propagandist.

    The fact is that there have been similar offhand and nonspecific references to religious deitys throughout the history of our nation. While this one might have been added more recently, that doesn't make it particularly unconstitutional.



    For me, it's not so much that I oppose the concept of removing it as I don't support the idea of filing lawsuits to remove all the vestiges of objectionable material from public life. If Congress voted to remove "under God" from the pledge tomorrow, I can't say I'd care. I just can't stand people like Newdow and his ilk, so I refuse to encourage them.
    Except the anthem has nothing to do with government just as the fight song fo any NFL team you care to mention has no relation to their board of managers. And as such does not qualify as a breach of the seperation of church and state.

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    Re: Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

    More signs of a pendulum swing in American society. I'm not gonna go out and claim it yet, I saw Scott Brown, I see Obamaism dropping faster than Lindsay Vonn, I hear rumblings, I see upheld court rulings, but...more signs.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    One for the good guys!!!!!!!



    Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance - Yahoo! News


    By TERENCE CHEA, Associated Press Writer Terence Chea, Associated Press Writer 2 hrs 18 mins ago


    SAN FRANCISCO A federal appeals court in San Francisco upheld the use of the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust" on U.S. currency, rejecting arguments on Thursday that the phrases violate the separation of church and state.

    The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel rejected two legal challenges by Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow, who claimed the references to God disrespect his religious beliefs.

    "The Pledge is constitutional," Judge Carlos Bea wrote for the majority in the 2-1 ruling. "The Pledge of Allegiance serves to unite our vast nation through the proud recitation of some of the ideals upon which our Republic was founded."

    Typical response from the right-wing. More interested in the flag and the pledge than the "Principles for which they stand".
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Well, the other great thing about America is if you don't want to say The Pledge of Allegiance, you don't have to.
    Have you ever heard a schoolteacher say, "Those of you who WANT to say the Pledge of Allegiance please stand?"
    "Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending."
    ~Anonymous

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    Re: Court upholds 'under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Are you seriously suggesting that for everyone, or even a majority of the people, in the "remove 'under god' from the Pledge" movement that it has NOTHING to do with attacking / being displeased with religion?
    Well, I can't speak for everyone. For myself, I see it as returning the Pledge to it's original form. I don't see how religion has anything to do with showing one's loyalty to the US. I could see their point if it was originally in the Pledge, but it wasn't.

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