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Lesbian teen back at Miss. school after prom flap

Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

At that point gays should stand down and not pursue marriage so that others can.

But then, they should back off now.

I disagree, but then I ascribe to the position that government should only be involved in civil unions and religion should only be involved in marriage... a different debate.
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

The school is still practicing discrimination by refusing to hold the prom because of this issue. I think you are aware that your logic is faulty, here.

Well, no, they're actually not because no student is being treated any differently than any other.

Attending a prom would have to be a civil right for there to be discrimination anyway. Are you prepared to argue that prom...PROM of all things is a civil right? Marriage is a civil right, the prom is not. Prom is on the level of voting? Really? Prom is the same as equal work for equal pay? Are you ****ing serious?

This is so 90210.

Like omg we like totally have a right to go to the prom fer sher.
 
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Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Well, no, they're actually not because no student is being treated any differently than any other.

Attending a prom would have to be a civil right for there to be discrimination anyway. Are you prepared to argue that prom...PROM of all things is a civil right? Marriage is a civil right, the prom is not. Prom is on the level of voting? Really? Prom is the same as equal work for equal pay? Are you ****ing serious?

This is so 90210.

Like omg we like totally have a right to go to the prom fer sher.

I am not arguing that prom is a civil right. Are you actually arguing that the prom was canceled for any reason other than being discriminatory? We are not talking about a legal definition in regards to discrimination.
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Yeah, that makes sense, blame the victims. She did not cancel prom, it's not her fault, she is not to blame for anything here. You show once again just how wrong you are with this with your PT comparison, since again, the fault is entirely, 100 % with the school.

I am glad we have young people in this country who are willing to stand up for their ideals, and do not cut and run when the going gets tough.

When backing down better accomplishes the goal, it is the nobler course.

What is going to happen now is that a wealthy homophobic family will shell out some dough to "save the prom." Then they will be cast as the heroes and she will be cast as the villain. If she offers to "take one for the team" then she saved the prom, casting her as the hero, and the school as the villain. If the school still refuses to host the prom, it will only serve to entrench them further in their own villainous role, but the heat will still be taken off of the girl.
 
Just like voting for the President, equality only applies if there's a vote, but there doesn't have to be a vote at all.

If there's a prom then everyone has to be admitted, but there doesn't even have to be a prom.
 
Just like voting for the President, equality only applies if there's a vote, but there doesn't have to be a vote at all.

If there's a prom then everyone has to be admitted, but there doesn't even have to be a prom.

And IF the prom is canceled, the reason matters and indicates if the school is being discriminatory or not. If it was canceled because of lack of funding or weather, this would be a completely different matter.
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

I am not arguing that prom is a civil right. Are you actually arguing that the prom was canceled for any reason other than being discriminatory? We are not talking about a legal definition in regards to discrimination.

Yes we are, the legal definition has bearing because the school's response was in reaction to legal action.

As per the Lemon Test the thing you are not being allowed access to must be a civil right. School dances are not civil rights. If the school holds a dance then it has to be open to all students, but there's no mandate to have a dance at all.

Perhaps it's over reaction but the school is perfectly within their rights to just shut the whole thing down.
 
And IF the prom is canceled, the reason matters and indicates if the school is being discriminatory or not. If it was canceled because of lack of funding or weather, this would be a completely different matter.

They were careful not to say why they shut it down ;)
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Yes we are, the legal definition has bearing because the school's response was in reaction to legal action.

As per the Lemon Test the thing you are not being allowed access to must be a civil right. School dances are not civil rights. If the school holds a dance then it has to be open to all students, but there's no mandate to have a dance at all.

Perhaps it's over reaction but the school is perfectly within their rights to just shut the whole thing down.

It maybe within their rights, but it doesn't change the fact it was the wrong move. Prom is one of the few big things in high school that kids remember. Taking this from them for the stupid reason they did was wrong. If I were a student at that school I would still try to have a dance just without the school's help.

Seriously canceling prom because a lesbian wanted to go with her girlfriend is just stupid.
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Yes we are, the legal definition has bearing because the school's response was in reaction to legal action.

As per the Lemon Test the thing you are not being allowed access to must be a civil right. School dances are not civil rights. If the school holds a dance then it has to be open to all students, but there's no mandate to have a dance at all.

Perhaps it's over reaction but the school is perfectly within their rights to just shut the whole thing down.

Yeah, but it's headed for legalville.

Mississippi school sued for canceling prom over lesbian student - CNN.com

A Mississippi high school faces a lawsuit over its decision to cancel its prom rather than allow a lesbian high school student attend with her girlfriend.

At the center of the lawsuit is a memorandum from the school to students, dated February 5, which states that prom dates must be of the opposite sex.

Also, when McMillen expressed a desire to wear a tuxedo to the prom, the superintendent told her only male students were allowed to wear tuxes, according to court documents.

Superintendent Teresa McNeece also told McMillen that she and her girlfriend could be ejected from the prom if any of the other students complained about their presence there, according to the documents.

The prom was canceled after McMillen and the ACLU tried informally to get the school to change its stance.
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

It maybe within their rights, but it doesn't change the fact it was the wrong move. Prom is one of the few big things in high school that kids remember. Taking this from them for the stupid reason they did was wrong. If I were a student at that school I would still try to have a dance just without the school's help.

Seriously canceling prom because a lesbian wanted to go with her girlfriend is just stupid.

Yeah well, fighting for acceptance was within the girl's rights and the wrong move also.

Wrong battle, imo.
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

No I called her an attention whore for not backing off after everyone was suffering.

It would be one thing is the entire student body were fighting for this, but it's just the 2 of them and the ACLU. The rest of the student body would rather have the prom.

I guess I've already had enough of the entire unit being punished with extra PT just because 1 or 2 couldn't get their **** together.

Now what if this were about an interracial couple? What if much of the student body were uncomfortable with interracial dating, so the school board mandated that only couples of the same race could attend? Or maybe that they could attend, but if they made others uncomfortable, they would have to leave? This isn't really that out there for some areas. Would it still be okay for them to make such a policy?

I've met several people in my life, even while in the military that are very uncomfortable with interracial dating. One of the white girls in boot camp was good friends with many of the black girls in boot camp with us, yet one day when we actually got a chance to socialize and share personal lives, I showed everyone a picture of my black boyfriend. Suddenly she was uncomfortable, and said she did not approve of interracial dating.
 
How did they even know that she was going to wear a tux? No one knew what anyone else was wearing when I went to proms. Did they ask for permission or some such nonsense?
 
I don't like the whole "break the bank" on the school thing. That just hurts a lot of people. And even though I think there can be clear argument for discrimination, huge monetary values of compensation are not required here. It was a prom. Either have it or don't. The reasonable thing to do is to say that if some lawsuit goes through that a school cannot discriminate against same sex couples at their events. Perhaps even, they cannot cancel events based on the premise that same sex couples will attend. But not large sums of money because we just do way more damage with that than we solve.
 
How did they even know that she was going to wear a tux? No one knew what anyone else was wearing when I went to proms. Did they ask for permission or some such nonsense?

They mandated that girls had to wear dresses and guys tuxes. She asked permission to wear the tux.
 
How did they even know that she was going to wear a tux? No one knew what anyone else was wearing when I went to proms. Did they ask for permission or some such nonsense?

That or she stated that she'd want to wear one. That's what it seems like in the CNN article anyway.
 
I don't like the whole "break the bank" on the school thing. That just hurts a lot of people. And even though I think there can be clear argument for discrimination, huge monetary values of compensation are not required here. It was a prom. Either have it or don't. The reasonable thing to do is to say that if some lawsuit goes through that a school cannot discriminate against same sex couples at their events. Perhaps even, they cannot cancel events based on the premise that same sex couples will attend. But not large sums of money because we just do way more damage with that than we solve.

A touching memory and time of joy has been taken from these kids and totally tainted by this woman and her refusal to think clearly. They deserve some compensation.

I would accept this woman's dismissal to offset a reduction in that monetary compensation. Make people pay for the injustices they deal out to others and the message becomes clear: stop using your position of authority to exert your moral outrage as public policy.
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Now what if this were about an interracial couple? What if much of the student body were uncomfortable with interracial dating, so the school board mandated that only couples of the same race could attend? Or maybe that they could attend, but if they made others uncomfortable, they would have to leave? This isn't really that out there for some areas. Would it still be okay for them to make such a policy?

I've met several people in my life, even while in the military that are very uncomfortable with interracial dating. One of the white girls in boot camp was good friends with many of the black girls in boot camp with us, yet one day when we actually got a chance to socialize and share personal lives, I showed everyone a picture of my black boyfriend. Suddenly she was uncomfortable, and said she did not approve of interracial dating.

Man why couldn't this be about something other than a prom....

Yes that would be legal and if you don't like it you can move.

No I don't agree with a school that would cancel an event for everyone over a superficial excuse but they have the right to do so if they want.

People have the right to do things we don't agree with in this country.

If that mixed couple stood their ground after the event was canceled then yes I would call them attention whores also.
 
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How did they even know that she was going to wear a tux? No one knew what anyone else was wearing when I went to proms. Did they ask for permission or some such nonsense?

The students received a memo explaining the rules of the prom. Proper attire for men and women among them, along with who you could bring. It's pretty common actually. I went out with an 18 yr old when I was 22, and she couldn't bring me to prom because I was too old.
 
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A touching memory and time of joy has been taken from these kids and totally tainted by this woman and her refusal to think clearly. They deserve some compensation.

I don't think so. It's just prom. Sure it's nice and fun, but it's not like it's essential to life or anything. Plenty of people live happy and fulfilling lives without going to their prom.

stop using your position of authority to exert your moral outrage as public policy.

I think this is appropriate. I don't know if firing is a good thing or not, I don't have any stats on the school district or whatever. Some punishment, be it maybe suspension or something like that. But other than that, just reinforce that they cannot deny same sex couples at school functions just because they don't like gay folk. It's gotta be open to the students if they're going to have the function. Of course, the flip to that is to cancel all functions, it's not outside the power of the school. There's no mandate that they have a prom.
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Man why couldn't this be about something other than a prom....

Yes that would be legal and if you don't like it you can move.

No I don't agree with a school that would cancel an event for everyone over a superficial excuse but they have the right to do so if they want.

People have the right to do things we don't agree with in this country.

If that maxed couple stood their ground after the event was canceled then yes I would call them attention whores also.

So your answer to abuse of authority is to fold? I prefer people with a bit of backbone and courage of their convictions myself.
 
A touching memory and time of joy has been taken from these kids and totally tainted by this woman and her refusal to think clearly. They deserve some compensation.

I would accept this woman's dismissal to offset a reduction in that monetary compensation. Make people pay for the injustices they deal out to others and the message becomes clear: stop using your position of authority to exert your moral outrage as public policy.

The thing eating at me is this fight is over something as frivolous as a school dance.

It cheapens the whole gay-rights movement.

How are these girls harmed if they can't go to a dance (while one of them cross-dresses). How is this anything like being denied access to intensive care while your loved one dies alone?
 
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I don't think so. It's just prom. Sure it's nice and fun, but it's not like it's essential to life or anything. Plenty of people live happy and fulfilling lives without going to their prom.

That's not the point. If there had been no prom to start with, that would be one thing. But this woman attempted to take an event that the vast majority of kids look forward to, that was already planned, and withhold it in order to enforce a moral authority over these kids that she didn't have to start with. She did nothing illegal but she definitely put herself and the school in the line of liability for civil damages. These cases where someone does something maliciously, out of the bounds of their authority, or in negligence are why we have civil damages to start with.

I think this is appropriate. I don't know if firing is a good thing or not, I don't have any stats on the school district or whatever. Some punishment, be it maybe suspension or something like that. But other than that, just reinforce that they cannot deny same sex couples at school functions just because they don't like gay folk. It's gotta be open to the students if they're going to have the function. Of course, the flip to that is to cancel all functions, it's not outside the power of the school. There's no mandate that they have a prom.

Without damages being paid out as a penalty, there is nothing to reinforce the ruling. The damages aren't so much a reward to the kids for being hurt by this woman's actions; they are a penalty to remind the woman to never exert control she doesn't have authority to exert again.
 
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