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Thread: Court to rule in military funeral protest case

  1. #31
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    Re: Court to rule in military funeral protest case

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    I can't believe this country as come to defending the right of scum like this vs. parents that made the ultimate sacrifice. I'm sorry but this is a no brainer to me.
    Perhaps we do not want to be like Europe or Candada where saying something offensive(to or about the protected class) can land you in jail.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 03-08-10 at 09:54 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #32
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    Re: Court to rule in military funeral protest case

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    As far as I'm concerned its pretty much the same as flag burning. Some folks say that's just flat ****ing wrong as well. Freedom of speech is freedom to offend. I think it's a worthwhile thing to have.
    Burning a flag doesn't have a "victim". There's no one already there in a specific emotional state that would be specifically harmed by the burning of the flag (unless they are doing it at a homecoming for the troops, but then they'd face base rules). To prove emotional harm is in such a case would be tough. To prove that someone was trying to harm you, or that you could assume that someone might be mentally harmed by burning a flag would take a lot.

    But to prove that someone might be mentally/emotionally harmed by protesting a loved one's funeral wouldn't be nearly as tough. I'm sure the family's attorneys could easily find a bunch of doctors that would be willing to testify that such a protest could easily harm a person's mental/emotional state. It's easy to see how standing within view/hearing distance of a family trying to grieve for the loss of their loved one and spouting out words of hatred or holding hateful signs about how that person's death was revenge by God could cause emotional harm. When we're talking about a funeral, it's not like just leaving to avoid hearing/seeing the protest would keep the person from being harmed. It is reasonably viewed by most people that a funeral is a way for someone to say goodbye to their lost loved ones. It's about proper closure, that if disrupted, could have serious affects on a person's mental health, especially if the servicemember had small children.

    Heck, I'd be willing to bet that if we were talking about a member of the Phelps's family that had died, and there was someone outside their property rejoicing, they'd be the first ones at the courthouse filing a civil suit against those people for emotional distress caused by the people rejoicing the death of their family member.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  3. #33
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    Re: Court to rule in military funeral protest case

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Perhaps we do not want to be like Europe or Candada where saying something offensive(to or about the protected class) can land you in jail.
    Accept this isn't about putting people in jail. This wouldn't make the protests illegal. It would make it so that they would have to pay money to the family for interrupting their grieving.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  4. #34
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    Re: Court to rule in military funeral protest case

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Accept this isn't about putting people in jail. This wouldn't make the protests illegal. It would make it so that they would have to pay money to the family for interrupting their grieving.
    Sounds like a back door fine. Europe and Canada have fines for offending gays and Muslims and perhaps other groups.
    Besides wouldn't you open the door for other people to sue for money because another group offended them?
    Last edited by jamesrage; 03-08-10 at 10:09 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Court to rule in military funeral protest case

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Sounds like a back door fine. Europe and Canada have fines for offending gays and Muslims and perhaps other groups.
    Besides wouldn't you open the door for other people to sue for money because another group offended them?
    This isn't just about being offended though. We are talking about interrupting a grieving process. It's a highly emotional time to begin with, and they are specifically doing it somewhere that could cause emotional harm in the eyes of a reasonable person to the family.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Court to rule in military funeral protest case

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Sounds like a back door fine. Europe and Canada have fines for offending gays and Muslims and perhaps other groups.
    Besides wouldn't you open the door for other people to sue for money because another group offended them?
    Pun intended?





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    Re: Court to rule in military funeral protest case

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This isn't just about being offended though.
    Many say the same thing about hate speech laws that it is not about being offended its about inciting hatred and violence towards specific groups.
    We are talking about interrupting a grieving process.
    Not being interrupted on public property or near public property is not a constitutional right.

    It's a highly emotional time to begin with, and they are specifically doing it somewhere that could cause emotional harm in the eyes of a reasonable person to the family.
    Personally I think those douche bags are doing it to provoke people to assult them or perhaps unlawfully have them removed from the premises in order to sue, I have no evidence of this but that is what I think those poeple are going around protesting at various places.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 03-08-10 at 10:58 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Court to rule in military funeral protest case

    They weren't picketing in the cemetary, but across the street. Freedom of speech should be protected at all costs.

    There's nothing to prevent them from being sued though for emotional damages. Lawsuits people... that's how you shut down these creeps, and not by taking away civil rights from everyone. Everyone who has ever been wronged by these freaks should form a class action suit in the tens of millions and shut down the church.

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    Re: Court to rule in military funeral protest case

    Ah this should actually be a very interesting court ruling.

    As you all know there are five categories that are speech but are not protected by the first amendment.

    These include:

    Obscenity: Material whose predominant appeal is to nudity, sexual activity, or excretion.

    Profanity: Irreverence toward sacred things, particularly the name of God.

    Libel and Slander: Libels are damages to reputation expressed in print, writing, pictures, or signs; slander damages reputation by spoken words.

    Fighting Words: Words that are likely to provoke the average person to retaliation and cause a "breach of the peace."

    Clear and present danger: Expression that creates a clear and present danger of an evil, which legislatures have the power to prohibit

    Now going into the case they could argue Libel and Slander and/or fighting words. Considering that what these protesters are doing falls under both of these categories.

    If you all are wondering why these five categories are not protected by free speech it can be summed up from (Gitlow v. New York 1925)

    These categories are not "essential elements of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interests in order and morality."

    Of course this does not mean the Supreme Court won't rule it as free speech just a mere guideline which should be followed by some of them.

    Should be interesting to see how this turns out!

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    Re: Court to rule in military funeral protest case

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Not being interrupted on public property or near public property is not a constitutional right.
    People need to realize that the constitution is not a set of laws, but rather a framework for creating laws. There's a million things that laws handle that the constitution is utterly silent on. In fact, treason is the only crime that the constitution mentions. The rest we have to do on our own.

    We have the pretty clear precedent in this country that your right to do ____ does not include harm to others. If someone successfully shows that Phelps' protests are causing harm to people, you then have an argument for punishing them.

    On general premise, what the Phelps family does is deliberately harmful to others for the sole purpose of making them angry so as to trigger action that allows lawsuits. It's wrong. I just don't know how you can regulate against what they do without curtailing honest free speech.


    Personally I think those douche bags are doing it to provoke people to assult them or perhaps unlawfully have them removed from the premises in order to sue, I have no evidence of this but that is what I think those poeple are going around protesting at various places.
    This is quite literally how the Phelps family makes a living.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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