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Thread: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    And that is where I disagree with him. The moment it was opened up to judicial review, I feel it became a living document and that is how it has existed since 1803. Abstractly, you may disagree, but realistically, that is how it has been.
    thank you, i hear you

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You don't understand what I am saying. Let me put it another way.

    Once the courts obtain judicial review, the Constitution became a living document inadvertently.
    I just don't understand why you think that one must lead to the other. It's entirely possible for judicial review to exist for centuries without anyone believing that the actual language of the Constitution should be subject to reinterpretation by the courts so as to reflect the views of the masses. I know that it's possible because that's what happened for approximately 130 years. Even though the concept was first advanced 80 years ago, it still does not reflect a consensus view of how the Constitution works.

    The reason why you're saying that judicial review automatically results in a living constitution is because you're defining "living Constitution" so broadly that it's lost all meaning.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I just don't understand why you think that one must lead to the other. It's entirely possible for judicial review to exist for centuries without anyone believing that the actual language of the Constitution should be subject to reinterpretation by the courts so as to reflect the views of the masses. I know that it's possible because that's what happened for approximately 130 years. Even though the concept was first advanced 80 years ago, it still does not reflect a consensus view of how the Constitution works.

    The reason why you're saying that judicial review automatically results in a living constitution is because you're defining "living Constitution" so broadly that it's lost all meaning.
    If that is how you see it then fine.

    I would say that the Constitution is a great document if you are land owning, white male. That is who it was designed by and who it was intended to benefit, and it is no coincidence that the biggest supporters of a literal interpretation of the Constitution are white male, merchants generally of the upper middle class.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 03-07-10 at 06:48 PM.

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    yup, we're all hi church tories, cavaliers

    damn those roundheads

    LOL!

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I think anyone who thinks like this should not be allowed to serve as a judge,lawyer let alone a professor at some university to teach law.
    jamesrage:

    Was there kiddie porn when the constitution/bill of rights was written?

    Answer that question and then put the statement you find so disagreeable into some sort reasonable intelligent context.

    Setting aside the partisan exaggeration in your post, this is an ongoing tug-of-war... Is the constitution a living breathing thing, that grows and changes or do we interpret it in a vacuum.

    The right answer: We find a pragmatic middle ground.

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    If that is how you see it then fine.

    I would say that the Constitution is a great document if you are land owning, white male. That is who it was designed by and who it was intended to benefit, and it is no coincidence that the biggest supporters of a literal interpretation of the Constitution are white male, merchants generally of the upper middle class.
    Yes, and all proponents of the living Constitution are black people raised in abject poverty in the rural South. Wait, no, that's Clarence Thomas, a strong proponent of originalism, while privileged white males such as Breyer, Stevens and Souter go around expounding about the virtues of a living document. If you're going to rely on irrelevant arguments in lieu of a well-developed judicial philosophy, at least try to base them on reality.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    jamesrage:

    Was there kiddie porn when the constitution/bill of rights was written?

    Answer that question and then put the statement you find so disagreeable into some sort reasonable intelligent context.

    Setting aside the partisan exaggeration in your post, this is an ongoing tug-of-war... Is the constitution a living breathing thing, that grows and changes or do we interpret it in a vacuum.

    The right answer: We find a pragmatic middle ground.
    Yes, and as everyone knows, there's no possible way that anything other than the Constitution could deal with the issue of kiddie porn.

    If only there were some sort of legislative body that could draft laws to deal with things like this, thus freeing the judicial system from its need to reinterpret the Constitution to deal with whatever bull**** issue that people think is important today...
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    If that is how you see it then fine.

    I would say that the Constitution is a great document if you are land owning, white male. That is who it was designed by and who it was intended to benefit, and it is no coincidence that the biggest supporters of a literal interpretation of the Constitution are white male, merchants generally of the upper middle class.
    ie the people who made this country what it is



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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If only there were some sort of legislative body that could draft laws to deal with things like this, thus freeing the judicial system from its need to reinterpret the Constitution to deal with whatever bull**** issue that people think is important today...
    if only

    and all it would have to do is find that pragmatic middle ground

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    So I assume that those who have problems with Liu's experience had problems with Brett Kavanaugh's experience as well.

    Just as a refresher. He graduated from law school in 1990, when Bush nominated him to the Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit. U.S. Court of Appeals - D.C. Circuit - Brett M. Kavanaugh (202) 216-7180

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