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Thread: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    NO new amendments add laws to be defined.
    A law by itself does not always create the conditions envisioned by their creation. Thus the Court defines the law, so that it gells with the reality of society.
    In the broadest sense, most people would agree with this. The problem is when judges use the text as a jumping-off point to engage in lawmaking rather than interpreting the text based on its language, the unambiguous intent of the lawmakers, and the context in which it was passed.
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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    What do you mean? How have I confused you?
    There is nothing in the Constitution that gives courts the power of judicial review. The courts gave themselves that power in the case of Marbury v. Madison in 1803. The courts usurped more power than the Constitution granted them and without a Constitutional Amendment. Arguably some of the founders wanted the courts to have the power of judicial review, but it was never explicitly outlined in the Constitution. Therefore, the typical Conservative argument is that the Supreme Court has been acting outside its Constitutional authority for over 200 years since the Constitution should be considered a fixed document where alterations should only come from amendments.

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    There is nothing in the Constitution that gives courts the power of judicial review. The courts gave themselves that power in the case of Marbury v. Madison in 1803. The courts usurped more power than the Constitution granted them and without a Constitutional Amendment. Arguably some of the founders wanted the courts to have the power of judicial review, but it was never explicitly outlined in the Constitution. Therefore, the typical Conservative argument is that the Supreme Court has been acting outside its Constitutional authority for over 200 years since the Constitution should be considered a fixed document where alterations should only come from amendments.
    Where are you getting that this is the "typical" conservative argument? There are few if any serious scholars who believe that judicial review is unconstitutional as a whole, as opposed to those who merely quibble about the scope and rationale.

    The "typical" conservative argument is that some judges deviate too far from the court's constitutional role in interpreting the law and encroach on the legislature's role in making the law.
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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Yeah those dang activist judges and their Brown v. Board and Loving v. Virginia. The constitution means what I say it means!
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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    I can't for the life of me understand how people interpret Constitution and Bill of Rights to mean, flexible guidelines.

    If you want to change something with in The Constitution there is a procedural process, it's called amending.
    Now they would of never added that if, the Rules of the Constitution were to never be amended or the rules were flexible guidelines.

    The argument that The Constitution was meant to be a living document is only in reference to the amending process.
    All other references that the clear cut rules, are some how guidelines, is dubious because of the specific amending process.

    You don't like whats in The Constitution, amend it.
    Otherwise, get off this banter about "living document."

    Your argument is totally invalid based on procedure and the construction of the document itself.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 03-07-10 at 01:37 AM.
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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yeah those dang activist judges and their Brown v. Board and Loving v. Virginia. The constitution means what I say it means!
    I'm not sure what you're responding to or why you think that a generic reference to either of those cases indicates anything about the validity of competing methods of constitutional interpretation. Neither one of the policies that were sought in those cases needed to be achieved in the way that they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I can't for the life of me understand how people interpret Constitution and Bill of Rights to mean, flexible guidelines.

    If you want to change something with in The Constitution there is a procedural process, it's called amending.
    Now they would of never added that if, the Rules of the Constitution were to never be amended or the rules were flexible guidelines.

    The argument that The Constitution was meant to be a living document is only in reference to the amending process.
    All other references that the clear cut rules, are some how guidelines, is dubious because of the specific amending process.

    You don't like whats in The Constitution, amend it.
    Otherwise, get off this banter about "living document."

    Your argument is totally invalid based on procedure and the construction of the document itself.
    Another thing that people often do is confuse the Constitution with statutory law - e.g. arguing "well its hard to amend the Constitution, so we should be able to reinterpret it to do things like allow interracial marriage." That argument misses the point, because interracial marriage could have been protected without reference to the Constitution, even if that wasn't actually something that was envisioned by the framers.
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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Another thing that people often do is confuse the Constitution with statutory law - e.g. arguing "well its hard to amend the Constitution, so we should be able to reinterpret it to do things like allow interracial marriage." That argument misses the point, because interracial marriage could have been protected without reference to the Constitution, even if that wasn't actually something that was envisioned by the framers.
    I don't see how this "living" nonsense is even allowed in the Judicial system.

    The Constitution is a simple contract, very easy to understand.
    All legal contracts (mutual agreement, adequate consideration, yada yada) are fixed to the terms.
    They don't change just because someone thinks it should be different.

    People are so crazy to willing let their protected assets within the contract be smudged for expediency of government.
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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    The Ninth Circuit Court of shlameals is the most overturned Court in America hands down.

    They have a history of getting it wrong and adding another radical is not going to help.

    An amendment to the Constitution should make it illegal to attempt to change any decision made by the Supreme Court on any subject.

    The Values our Nation were founded on should not be subject to change because some wacko liberals has some whim.

    We have sen in the last 50 years so many attacks on our values, making acts so perverse they flu in the face any value system it's not funny.

    Liberals are trying to destroy or Nation and they use threats, intimidation and claims of intolerance to force their unnatural ways of life and thinking on the rest of us.

    Enough is enough.

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    If you want to be technical, the Constitution is an implicit contract. I never signed and I never agreed to abide by it. I was born into it, not unlike how a slave may be born into bondage, and if I want to change it, then I have to get enough of my fellow slaves to rebel against it and vote in representatives to amend it. The Constitution claims to guarantee me certain rights and protections in exchange for adhering to it, but tyrannical majorities are constantly imposing their will on me and whenever a court steps into protect those civil rights that the Constitution claims to guarantee me, the members of the tyrannical majority call it "judicial activism" because it doesn't coincide with their interpretation of the document and the motives of the founders who wrote it 300 years ago. The tyrannical majority also demand that a tyrannical majority be the only way that the Constitution be changed through the amendment process outlined in the Constitution itself.

    So basically, unless you belong to the tyrannical majority, or form your own tyrannical majority, you have no rights, and the only system in place that can protect your individual rights, the court system, must adhere strictly to the document and the motives of the people who wrote it 300 years ago. Wow, what a convenient way to view the Constitution if you believe in preserving the status quo and are resistant to change. In other words, if you are Conservative.

    Now let's look at the reality. Marbury v. Madison settled the dispute about whether courts had the power of constitutional interpretation. That means that since 1803, the Constitution has been a living document. It may not have been the intention of the founding fathers, but it is the reality that for most of America's history, the document has been living.

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    We have sen in the last 50 years so many attacks on our values, making acts so perverse they flu in the face any value system it's not funny.

    Liberals are trying to destroy or Nation and they use threats, intimidation and claims of intolerance to force their unnatural ways of life and thinking on the rest of us.

    Enough is enough.
    Yeah, like when those damn black people wanted to ride in the front of buses, and drink from white only water fountains, and go to desegregated schools. How dare they challenge the values this country was founded on! Don't they know that the founders considered them only 3/5ths of a person! They totally deserved the firehoses and police dogs being turned on them!

    And how about those abortion clinics? Truly, those people were shown the love of Jesus when those clinics were bombed and abortion doctors were murdered. How dare they impose their sick practice of abortion, even though abortions were practiced even during the founding father's time!

    And the gays! They are the sickest group of all! To think that sodomy laws would be overturned and the government would no longer have a right knowing what goes on in the bedrooms of consenting adults! This a travesty to the values of this country!

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