Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 141

Thread: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

  1. #121
    pirate lover
    liblady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St Thomas, VI
    Last Seen
    03-14-16 @ 03:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    16,165
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Not a problem at all. I enjoy writing things like that out sometimes, it helps me rework through some things in my head (and helps for class).

    To be clear, I'm not saying that the living Constitution theory is obviously wrong or that you'd have to be dumb to support it. There are plenty of people (including many that are far, far smarter than I) who have offered cogent and well-thought out reasons for why they think it's the best way to read the Constitution. I just don't agree, for the reasons I've stated, and think it's a problematic road to go down.
    i read j-mac's post re: scalia. it seems to me that he is correct, the framers provided a basis that included the necessary flexibility for the document to evolve as required.

    that said, divining the intent of the framers will always be an interpretation, not a science, and subject, unfortunately, to the politics of the justices, as hard as they may or may not struggle against that.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  2. #122
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i read j-mac's post re: scalia. it seems to me that he is correct, the framers provided a basis that included the necessary flexibility for the document to evolve as required.
    I don't think that's what Scalia was trying to convey, at least to the extent that you're reading him as saying anything that could be construed as support for the living Constitution approach. Scalia is the ur-textualist, and has no hesitation about saying that people who believe in the living Constitution are wrong.

    that said, divining the intent of the framers will always be an interpretation, not a science, and subject, unfortunately, to the politics of the justices, as hard as they may or may not struggle against that.
    This is very true to a degree, which is why I think it's important to do everything we can to limit the impact of politics on the judiciary. The situation has gotten so much worse in recent years. Scalia himself likes to point out that he was confirmed 98-0, an act of bipartisanship (and executive deference) that would be unheard of today. It would be nice if both parties would pledge to return to this deferential role at some point in the future and take some off the pressure off the judiciary.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  3. #123
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    The founding fathers understood that the constitution would be and should be able to flex.
    ...which is why they included Article V and the 10th amendment.
    These two things cover any and every eventuality.

  4. #124
    Sage
    CriticalThought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    18,125

    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Just answer the question. If the words don't mean what they say on the paper, then the paper doesn't have any meaning at all. Since you insist the Constitution has no meaning, why waste time on it at all, it's obviously nothing but a charade for the people seeking power.



    It has absolutely no value if, via "judicial review", the Congress is now allowed the ability to impose federal public education on the people, when that power simply does not exist in the Constitution as written. Why, if the courts allow the government the power to allocate federal funds for public education without requiring an amendment authorizing it, then the courts will allow the Congress to seize control of the nation's auto industries, it's health care industry, and the banking industry.

    Oh, wait, the only thing on that list Congress hasn't done yet is steal the nation's health care industry, and it's a matter of mere weeks before that happens. Since there is no authorization to be found in the Constitution for any of those things, the purpose served by the Constitution is what, exactly? Since the stated purpose of the Constitution is the protection of individual liberty, and the judicial review process has Progressively destroyed those freedoms, what exactly is the Constitution as a "Living Document" under "judicial review" for? Outside of providing a convenient excuse for people who want to disobey the actually intent of the Constitution and seize/expand their power?

    Hmmmm?



    The government has grown stronger as a result. The nation grew stronger bedcause of the industry and creativity of it's citizens. I fail to see how the nation "grew stronger" as a result of Roe v Wade, Plessy v Ferguson, Dred Scot, United States v Miller.



    Yes, if you wish to ignore the damage the courts have done, feel free to keep right on doing as you have been.
    I don't know why you are going on this whole tirade. It is what it is. If you aren't happy with how America has dealt with its Constitution since 1803 then move to a different country.

  5. #125
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    NO new amendments add laws to be defined.
    A law by itself does not always create the conditions envisioned by their creation. Thus the Court defines the law, so that it gells with the reality of society.
    There is a BIG difference between:
    - looking at a given instance and determiing how the Constitution covers it
    - looking for a way to argue that the Constitution covers a given instance.

    The latter is the very essence of judicial activisim.

  6. #126
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I don't know why you are going on this whole tirade. It is what it is. If you aren't happy with how America has dealt with its Constitution since 1803 then move to a different country.
    Right, the usual lefty cop out: "The Constitution you swore to protect doesn't mean damn thing, since we can promote socialism and totalitarianism by pretending it allows what it doesn't allow, you can move to another country if you don't like it."

    If you lack the balls to admit that your interpretation of the Constitution means the Constitution has no meaning whatsoever, why aren't YOU moving to a country that doesn't have a constitution to protect YOUR freedoms?

    I know what it is I swore to uphold when I enlisted in the Navy, and that wasn't a document written with disappearing ink on a Picasso painting.

  7. #127
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    NO new amendments add laws to be defined.
    Gee, I wonder why the Volkstead Act was passed? Where did that IRS tax code come from?

  8. #128
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    that anyone would submit that the difference between the SCHOOL of activism and the SCHOOL of construction is a mere matter of advertence or inadvertence is absurd

  9. #129
    Sage
    CriticalThought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    18,125

    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Right, the usual lefty cop out: "The Constitution you swore to protect doesn't mean damn thing, since we can promote socialism and totalitarianism by pretending it allows what it doesn't allow, you can move to another country if you don't like it."

    If you lack the balls to admit that your interpretation of the Constitution means the Constitution has no meaning whatsoever, why aren't YOU moving to a country that doesn't have a constitution to protect YOUR freedoms?

    I know what it is I swore to uphold when I enlisted in the Navy, and that wasn't a document written with disappearing ink on a Picasso painting.
    Okay, I'll give you all your options. If you don't like how your government has been run since 1803, then pass a federal Constitutional amendment that does away with the power of judicial review and thus any judgments which make the Constitution into a living document. Your other option is to move somewhere less barbaric. You are the one advocating on behalf of a government that only uses the amendment process to change the way the government runs, so why not practice what you preach instead of bitching like some sort of helpless infant?
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 03-08-10 at 10:01 PM.

  10. #130
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    or, more practically, simply support the appointment of constructionist judges and oppose judicial activists

    as well as those rather radical pols who would pick em

Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •