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Thread: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    In case your forgot, the Constitution has been amended over 20 times to address certain issues, but they do not affect the interpretation of those sections of the constitution they do not address.
    just the fact that there CAN be amendments means the constitution is a living document.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    In terms of experience, he's not that much better (although I'll note that he had been a lawyer for 4 more years and has a marginally more impressive academic background). You're right that it would be hard to justify supporting Kavanaugh while opposing Liu solely on the grounds that he wasn't experienced enough, but I don't think anyone is doing that. My primary concerns about Liu relate to his actions in regards to the Alito confirmation and what they indicate about his views and prospective judicial approach.

    It's also worth noting that the Dems stalled Kavanaugh's confirmation for almost three years. Are you saying that you think it would be fair for the Republicans to do the same here?
    I agree with you. Liu's lack of experience is a major concern. Now, the only thing that makes me feel better is that he's nominated to (1) an appeals court and (2) an appeals court that doesn't seem to get upheld by the Supreme Court very much. I don't think anyone should be nominated for the district court if they have no judicial experience.

    If they held up his nomination, I don't know if I would think that was a bad thing. My husband went to high school with Kavanaugh and was appalled when he got nominated. Come on! The Democrats should not call foul if Liu's confirmation is held up. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    just the fact that there CAN be amendments means the constitution is a living document.
    No, that is not what is meant by living document in most debates.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    just the fact that there CAN be amendments means the constitution is a living document.
    Uh, no. Because there is the Amendment mechanism in the Constitution it means the Constitution is not subject creative judicial interpretation to alter it's meaning.

    The only way the Constitution can be adjusted to fit modern realities is the Amendment process.

    Hiring a bunch of judges to begin claiming what isn't Constitutional now is, as FDR threatened to do, is a clear violation of the intent of the Constitution itself.

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Uh, no. Because there is the Amendment mechanism in the Constitution it means the Constitution is not subject creative judicial interpretation to alter it's meaning.

    The only way the Constitution can be adjusted to fit modern realities is the Amendment process.

    Hiring a bunch of judges to begin claiming what isn't Constitutional now is, as FDR threatened to do, is a clear violation of the intent of the Constitution itself.
    i never said it was open to creative judicial interpretation. i said it was a living document, meaning, it can be adjusted to fit modern realities. it's not static.

    seems pretty simple to me. both sides hire judges, you just don't like it when your side isn't doing the hiring.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Uh, no. Because there is the Amendment mechanism in the Constitution it means the Constitution is not subject creative judicial interpretation to alter it's meaning.

    The only way the Constitution can be adjusted to fit modern realities is the Amendment process.

    Hiring a bunch of judges to begin claiming what isn't Constitutional now is, as FDR threatened to do, is a clear violation of the intent of the Constitution itself.
    Yup, it is part of the Alinsky process for Socialism/Communism.....

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    the amendment process demonstrates the document lives---LOL!

    here's as good a place as any to put this

    msnbc this morning (best politics on tv) is covering obama's rah rah in glenside, pennsylvania

    he's speechifying before his usual hand-picked crowd of enthusiastic supporters---gosh, it's good to get outta dc, washington's a wonderful town, and all, the folks there are great, but they have a way of looking at every issue, every move, as, "how is this going to effect the next election," who's winning, who's losing...

    obama...

    PAINTING HIMSELF AS OUTSIDER!

    LOL!

    BARRY BATTLES THE BELTWAY---now, there's a bumper

    remember when he tried to play POPULIST that day?

    one day, he was POPULIST for a day

    then he forgot

    it really wasn't working, as well

    it's true, tho, obama really isn't so much all about dc

    he's far more CHICAGO

    now, that's really OUTSIDE the mainstream

    LOL!

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Come now, we know that in order to interpret the Constitution, you have to ignore the founding fathers who told you that it should be interpreted (like Jefferson and Madison) and only pay attention to the ones who said that it was set in stone (like none of them).

    I mean, seriously. What do lawyers and professors who study history and the law more than anyone else in the entire world know, anyway?

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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    just the fact that there CAN be amendments means the constitution is a living document.
    Like many in this thread, you're misunderstanding the concept of the Constitution as a "living document."

    Nobody denies that the Constitution can be changed over time as we add or subtract various provisions via the amendment process. That's not what "living document" means.

    The idea of the constitution as a living document is that the existing words and meaning of the constitution change over time to mean different things depending on how society has changed. The simplest example is that although the 8th Amendment's ban on "cruel and unusual punishment" very clearly allowed capital punishment when it was drafted, a proponent of the constitution as a living document might argue that because society has changed to recognize that capital punishment is bad nowadays, the text of the 8th Amendment that bans "cruel and unusual punishment" should be reinterpreted as banning capital punishment.

    In contrast, someone who does not support the idea of the constitution as a living document might argue that "cruel and unusual punishment" means what the framers said and meant, which did not include capital punishment.

    Another point where many are getting off course is that they are concluding that if you think that capital punishment should be banned, it means that you must think that the text of the Constitution should be reinterpreted to cover that, thus making the "living document" theory the only logical one. The argument that the constitution must be a living document because Brown v. Board or Loving v. Virginia enacted good policies suffers from the same logical flaw.

    In reality, all of these issues could (and have) been dealt with not by reinterpreting the meaning of the Constitution, but by passing laws. If the death penalty is bad, states or Congress are free to pass laws banning it. From an opponent of the living document theory, this protects the legislature's prerogative to make laws, which is a fundamental part of our constitution's structure.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 03-08-10 at 03:05 PM.
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    Re: Obama 9th Circuit Nominee: Constitution Must Adapt to Changes in the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Come now, we know that in order to interpret the Constitution, you have to ignore the founding fathers who told you that it should be interpreted (like Jefferson and Madison) and only pay attention to the ones who said that it was set in stone (like none of them).

    I mean, seriously. What do lawyers and professors who study history and the law more than anyone else in the entire world know, anyway?
    According to wikipedia (not the best source, but accessible from work), it looks like there are several possible methods to read the constitution.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_interpretation]Judicial interpretation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

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