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Thread: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

  1. #51
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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Goldenboy219;1058606144]Even if you did not have an exact number ready, why did you fail to post it and instead give directions?
    How many times do I have to give directions to the bls.gov? You just don't like the results and I don't blame you.



    So you could not wait to make a partisan statement? In 2008, the non-instutionalized population of the US was 233,788,000 where as today it is 236,998,000. Even with minimal growth, unemployment would have continued to expand due to the natural demographics. One of the negatives of such a large "package" that has to be paid for via treasury auctions (record ones) is the time it takes to appropriate. I do agree that the projections were completely off (as was the size needed to achieve them).
    The point is the non farm payroll numbers are worse than claimed by the Obama Administration and reported by the media. Most jobs being created are in the govt. and that public sector creates debt, not govt. revenue. Obama stimulus plan went to grow the size of govt. and that grows the size of the debt. It is unsustainable.



    Yet you did not provide what i asked for. Care to answer why you purposefully did not post that there was actually job creation in the tune of 300,000?
    See above, govt. job creation is debt creation as govt. produces very little. Are you happy that it is the govt. creating the jobs instead of the private sector? Your description is that of being a Libertarian but your comments are that of a liberal.


    Of course not. But things are getting better.
    [/QUOTE]

    Explain how a labor force dropping and discouraged workers growing are examples of things getting better?

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How many times do I have to give directions to the bls.gov? You just don't like the results and I don't blame you.
    I had this PDF in front of me on the 5th. http://www.bls.gov/web/cpseea1.pdf This has nothing to do with whether i like the results or not, so do not try to shuffle.

    The point is the non farm payroll numbers are worse than claimed by the Obama Administration and reported by the media. Most jobs being created are in the govt. and that public sector creates debt, not govt. revenue. Obama stimulus plan went to grow the size of govt. and that grows the size of the debt. It is unsustainable.
    The only one talking about Obama here is you. You cannot even make a comment without mentioning his name one time. Come on, its time to get over it.

    See above, govt. job creation is debt creation as govt. produces very little. Are you happy that it is the govt. creating the jobs instead of the private sector? Your description is that of being a Libertarian but your comments are that of a liberal.
    Ha.... Nice try. At this point we need people to have jobs, be they working for the government, or not. I am non biased in my comments, beliefs, and opinions and therefore you will never... ever... get a "cookie cutter" response from me.

    Explain how a labor force dropping and discouraged workers growing are examples of things getting better?
    I never claimed that those things are making things better, so please refrain from associating such claims with me. 300,000 more jobs is better an 0, or -300,000. Does your partisanship have any limits?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I understand that the right would rather do nothing but for Pete's sake, some things need to get done in this country. I don't care which party does it but we know the GOP won't do squat so I can only hope the dems can squeeze out a little something for the nation in between corporate welfare/giveaways.
    If you think the right wants to do nothing then you are ignorant of the facts, which have been available to you for probably a year. Here let me help..... http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare ....... check it out. Just because the MSM doesn't pay any attention to the right's suggestions, doesn't mean they don't exist.
    Last edited by American; 03-08-10 at 10:46 AM.
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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Goldenboy219;1058606163]I had this PDF in front of me on the 5th. http://www.bls.gov/web/cpseea1.pdf This has nothing to do with whether i like the results or not, so do not try to shuffle.

    Whether you like the results or not is relevant because the situation isn't improving it is getting worse. Labor force dropping, discouraged workers rising. What did we get for the 800+ billion stimulus?



    The only one talking about Obama here is you. You cannot even make a comment without mentioning his name one time. Come on, its time to get over it.
    It is the Democrat Stimulus plan that isn't stimulating anything but discouragement and debt.



    Ha.... Nice try. At this point we need people to have jobs, be they working for the government, or not. I am non biased in my comments, beliefs, and opinions and therefore you will never... ever... get a "cookie cutter" response from me.
    People working for the govt. are paid by the taxpayers thus their wages are offset by tax payments or in the case today debt.



    I never claimed that those things are making things better, so please refrain from associating such claims with me. 300,000 more jobs is better an 0, or -300,000. Does your partisanship have any limits?
    Where are the discouraged workers in those labor force numbers? There have been NO jobs created when factoring in the discouraged and those actually looking but unemployed. Stop digging the hold, you are going to be buried.

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It is the Democrat Stimulus plan that isn't stimulating anything but discouragement and debt.
    More partisanship. Nothing new to address here.

    People working for the govt. are paid by the taxpayers thus their wages are offset by tax payments or in the case today debt.
    So??? They are still spending money in the private sector by paying their bills, buying food, clothing, etc.... Deficits rise during a recession, or haven't you heard?

    Where are the discouraged workers in those labor force numbers? There have been NO jobs created when factoring in the discouraged and those actually looking but unemployed. Stop digging the hold, you are going to be buried.
    What....... The **** are you talking about? Stop boring me with the partisan BS. Discouraged workers could be going back to school, fixing up their house, etc.... The only reason you bring this up is because you are looking for any reason to slam this administration for the state of the economy. It is kinda sad when this is the agenda behind your activity here instead of intellectual debate.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I understand that the right would rather do nothing but for Pete's sake, some things need to get done in this country. I don't care which party does it but we know the GOP won't do squat so I can only hope the dems can squeeze out a little something for the nation in between corporate welfare/giveaways.
    Until you and your party learn to have an intellectually honest discussion, there is nothing to talk about with your kind.

    The plan Republicans are offering up is EXACTLY what Americans really want, but it isn't nearly socialistic enough for the likes of Pelosi, Reid, and Obama, so they ignore it and claim that Republicans are being obstructionists.

    Fortunately, most Americans, including independents, are seeing through this bull**** easily.

    Those stooges are doing irrepairable damage to your party.

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    More partisanship. Nothing new to address here.



    So??? They are still spending money in the private sector by paying their bills, buying food, clothing, etc.... Deficits rise during a recession, or haven't you heard?



    What....... The **** are you talking about? Stop boring me with the partisan BS. Discouraged workers could be going back to school, fixing up their house, etc.... The only reason you bring this up is because you are looking for any reason to slam this administration for the state of the economy. It is kinda sad when this is the agenda behind your activity here instead of intellectual debate.
    Spoken like a true liberal, not libertarian. Is that lightbulb ever going to go off in that head of yours?

    I bring this up because it is the facts that confuse you and the media. Obama is a very likeable individual but his policies are destroying the free market economy. When someone celebrates that the unemployment rate stays at 9.7% and ignores the drop in labor force and the increase in discouraged workers, that is partisanship and someone out of touch with reality.

    My agenda is obvious, promote a pro growth, pro business economy that actually creates jobs. You are ignoring facts and starting to revert to the liberal tactic of attacking the messenger and ignoring the message.

    Tell me when there ever has been discouraged workers over a million? That is a lot of people redecorating their rooms or houses, What it shows is that you really don't have a clue as to what drives our economy and how it works. You also are willing to buy what you are told and even when confronted with facts you are incapable of admitting that you are wrong.

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Spoken like a true liberal, not libertarian. Is that lightbulb ever going to go off in that head of yours?
    And then you will go on to say i attack the messenger? My political lean has nothing to do with this discussion, and only serves as a means to shift the discussion.

    I bring this up because it is the facts that confuse you and the media. Obama is a very likeable individual but his policies are destroying the free market economy. When someone celebrates that the unemployment rate stays at 9.7% and ignores the drop in labor force and the increase in discouraged workers, that is partisanship and someone out of touch with reality.
    Again, you couldn't resist.... When have i celebrated? There has been nothing partisan about my posts, or would you like to highlight it?

    My agenda is obvious, promote a pro growth, pro business economy that actually creates jobs. You are ignoring facts and starting to revert to the liberal tactic of attacking the messenger and ignoring the message.
    This is a pro business economy if i have ever seen one. The problem is this; Things were really really bad about a year ago, and recovery is not a one step process considering where we stood.

    Tell me when there ever has been discouraged workers over a million? That is a lot of people redecorating their rooms or houses,
    Given it is impossible to know exactly what these people are doing (many are known to increase their skill sets), speculativly lumping them into the unemployed catagory speaks volumes.

    What it shows is that you really don't have a clue as to what drives our economy and how it works. You also are willing to buy what you are told and even when confronted with facts you are incapable of admitting that you are wrong.
    Really? We have been down this road before.

    Care to make a little wager on the state of the economy by July? Will unemployment fall below 9%? Will consumer and consumer confidence be higher than it was in 2007? Will the Fed begin to unload parts of its balance sheet? Will long term yields eclipse 5%?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Goldenboy219;1058606276]And then you will go on to say i attack the messenger? My political lean has nothing to do with this discussion, and only serves as a means to shift the discussion.
    It has everything to do with your political leaning which is for less govt. not more yet you give Obama a pass on increasing the size of the govt. and not implementing policy that grows the private sector.


    Again, you couldn't resist.... When have i celebrated? There has been nothing partisan about my posts, or would you like to highlight it?
    Calling me partisan when I point out actual facts is the issue here but again you divert.


    This is a pro business economy if i have ever seen one. The problem is this; Things were really really bad about a year ago, and recovery is not a one step process considering where we stood.
    What is pro business about the Obama economic agenda? Where we stood was Congress had to pass the stimulus plan immediately to stop unemployment from exceeding 8%. So what did Obama do to prevent unemployment from exceeding 8% and how did that work out for the country?


    Given it is impossible to know exactly what these people are doing (many are known to increase their skill sets), speculativly lumping them into the unemployed catagory speaks volumes.
    Hardly impossible, you just don't want to accept it. I asked when the discouraged workers have ever exceeded 1 million and this is your answer? Why would the labor force decrease with a growing population?


    Care to make a little wager on the state of the economy by July? Will unemployment fall below 9%? Will consumer and consumer confidence be higher than it was in 2007? Will the Fed begin to unload parts of its balance sheet? Will long term yields eclipse 5%?
    Unfortunately I would love to make that wager. The economy has to create 200,000 jobs a month just to break even and thus to employ the 15 million unemployed and encourage the discouraged to return is not going to happen without a 180 degree shift in the Obama economic policy.

    If you were in private business spending the amount of money Obama is and getting the results he has generated you would be fired. My bet is we are going to see inflation like you haven't seen since the Carter years and that is going to destroy a lot of people, especially the young.

    Here is where you can go to verify my data

    Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
    Last edited by Conservative; 03-08-10 at 11:46 AM.

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It has everything to do with your political leaning which is for less govt. not more yet you give Obama a pass on increasing the size of the govt. and not implementing policy that grows the private sector.
    Obama is not responsible for "growing" the private sector as that task will forever be part of a market economy. The "private sector" will grow on its own accord regardless of the size and scope of Obama. You give him far too much credit (you sound like Hanity). Government spending does in fact boost (upward shift) aggregate demand. Now we sit back and wait for it to take effect.

    Calling me partisan when I point out actual facts is the issue here but again you divert.
    You have brought up Obama in every single post thus far. I got it (you hate him) last month. Nothing you have stated however has been substantial.

    What is pro business about the Obama economic agenda? Where we stood was Congress had to pass the stimulus plan immediately to stop unemployment from exceeding 8%.
    Agreed. I was expecting (even with the puny stimulus) unemployment in the tune of 12%-13% and therefore this so called stimulus package has clearly beaten my expectations.

    So what did Obama do to prevent unemployment from exceeding 8% and how did that work out for the country?
    And that is just it. Hell bent on exposing the 8% given how bad everything truly was shows your detachment from reality. The fact that U6 unemployment is 17% now and not 33% is going to be viewed as a positive in my book. Optimal? Nope! But given the lack of size (it should have been in the upwards of $1.5 trillion with 90% towards various infrastructure) i am content with the results.

    Hardly impossible, you just don't want to accept it. I asked when the discouraged workers have ever exceeded 1 million and this is your answer? Why would the labor force decrease with a growing population?
    The relative size of discouraged workers is not a vital issue during this stage in the game. If unemployment were @ 13.5%, such an issue would become vital as it accounts for a greater aspect of both the labor force and non-institutionalized population.




    Unfortunately I would love to make that wager. The economy has to create 200,000 jobs a month just to break even and thus to employ the 15 million unemployed and encourage the discouraged to return is not going to happen without a 180 degree shift in the Obama economic policy.
    Great analysis Anyways what wagers do you agree to and what are the terms? For unemployment (over under 9%) shall it be a Reagan/Obama avatar to the loser. Not that i love the current president, but seeing you sport it would be great for a month.

    If you were in private business spending the amount of money Obama is and getting the results he has generated you would be fired. My bet is we are going to see inflation like you haven't seen since the Carter years and that is going to destroy a lot of people, especially the young.
    Inflation...... Dare anyone speak that dreaded word! The austrians were clamoring for hyperinflation due to the bursting of the housing bubble and now you are betting for inflation? Why not keep your mouth closed and max out your investment fund with a TIPS etf, or short treasuries, buy gold, etc...? I'll go an entire year with the avatar of your choice for this wager. I would only require you 1 month if for some reason there is not double digit inflation (ill even give you a 2 point handicap). By the end of this year. Deal?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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