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Thread: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

  1. #31
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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    A fiscal conservative could support a giant government program that provides the same services to the American public for a lower overall cost (versus private industry)!
    ummm, no he wouldn't. else the government could take over the food industry, feed us all mcdonalds and save tons of money.

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    When we're at 9.7 in June, I wonder if they'll blame the heat.
    it's kinda like global warming that way.

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Yes it does

    And what do you want the government to do about it?

    Give everyone jobs?
    immediately:

    1. immediately halt the stimulus payouts
    2. come out and say flat out we aren't going to pass cap-and-tax, or it's EPA equivalent
    3. come out and flat say we aren't going to pass obamacare
    4. Drastically simplify the tax code. I prefer the fair tax, but I'll take a flat tax, or a graduated flat tax or anything therein, or anything that gets rid of the death tax, and hopefully drastically cuts corporate tax rates, capital gains taxes, and payroll taxes.

    longer term:

    5. balanced budget amendment with a debt payment plan to protect the dollar
    6. significantly lower the percentage of the economy taken up by the government through the removal of unconstitutional, unnecessary, and damaging programs, such as farm subsidies.
    7. establish free trade agreements with all nations ruled by representative governments with at least moderate recognition of human rights.
    8. minimize the regulatory burden of the US in accordance with #6.
    9. lower unemployment benefits, and impose drastic cuts to the welfare state in accordance with #6.
    10. immigration reform which imposes a minimum $5,000 fine or 1 year in prison for each illegal immigrant knowingly hired by an employer.

  4. #34
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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    immediately:

    1. immediately halt the stimulus payouts
    2. come out and say flat out we aren't going to pass cap-and-tax, or it's EPA equivalent
    3. come out and flat say we aren't going to pass obamacare
    4. Drastically simplify the tax code. I prefer the fair tax, but I'll take a flat tax, or a graduated flat tax or anything therein, or anything that gets rid of the death tax, and hopefully drastically cuts corporate tax rates, capital gains taxes, and payroll taxes.

    longer term:

    5. balanced budget amendment with a debt payment plan to protect the dollar
    6. significantly lower the percentage of the economy taken up by the government through the removal of unconstitutional, unnecessary, and damaging programs, such as farm subsidies.
    7. establish free trade agreements with all nations ruled by representative governments with at least moderate recognition of human rights.
    8. minimize the regulatory burden of the US in accordance with #6.
    9. lower unemployment benefits, and impose drastic cuts to the welfare state in accordance with #6.
    10. immigration reform which imposes a minimum $5,000 fine or 1 year in prison for each illegal immigrant knowingly hired by an employer.
    cp, You have my vote.

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    if i may humbly add to cp's outstanding menu:

    to direct with firm, forceful visionary leadership this nation's angst over its future, which is monumental right now, into a NATIONAL MOBILIZATION, emergency footing, ala fdr in ww2, in the area of ENERGY PRODUCTION, omnibus approach:

    oil, offshore, anwr, refineries, electrical power plants, gas, offshore gas (see bob mcdonnell's virginia), clean coal, nukes, wind, solar, tidal, butterfly wings, shale, batteries, alternatives, cars, r&d...

    anything that in any way can remotely be conceived to develop POWER

    tax breaks for, public investment in

    GREAT jobs, secure, hi paying, benefits, retirements, health care...

    productive, lucrative JOBS...

    ENERGY is sure to be a world wide critical need for at least the next century

    he who produces power has the world at his well grounded feet

    thru leasing offshore oil fields alone CALIFORNIA, of all places, can come close to balancing its budget

    THIS is the way out for america

    national mobilization, emergency footing, fdr, ww2---ENERGY!

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    unfortunately, under current leadership, americans are palpably losing hope

    there's politics, there's economics

    there's indicators, there's guts

    POLITICS IS IN THE GUT

    and if you can't FEEL america's mounting desperation, her sense of no-way-out...

    well, you might be too eggheaded for your own good

    in my opinion

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post

    1. immediately halt the stimulus payouts
    And watch demand take a nasty turn to the left (pun intended).

    2. come out and say flat out we aren't going to pass cap-and-tax, or it's EPA equivalent
    In this economic climate, you would be correct.

    3. come out and flat say we aren't going to pass obamacare
    Well.... Something has to be done as something is better than nothing. And since there is no talk of a public option, i have no idea why you would be against such measures.

    4. Drastically simplify the tax code. I prefer the fair tax, but I'll take a flat tax, or a graduated flat tax or anything therein, or anything that gets rid of the death tax, and hopefully drastically cuts corporate tax rates, capital gains taxes, and payroll taxes.
    That is a mixed bag if i have ever seen one. During periods of very low monetary velocity, cutting taxes will be less than desirable. I can agree on cutting taxes on middle to lower end income earners as they tend to spend the majority of their incomes thereby creating a steady multiplier in which to feel confident about.



    5. balanced budget amendment with a debt payment plan to protect the dollar
    Debt payment plan? Are you aware that treasury securities mature on a daily basis?

    6. significantly lower the percentage of the economy taken up by the government through the removal of unconstitutional, unnecessary, and damaging programs, such as farm subsidies.
    I can agree with this; but only to a certain point. It is a matter of national security to be able to produce much of ones food.

    7. establish free trade agreements with all nations ruled by representative governments with at least moderate recognition of human rights.
    I can agree with that. Realizing it however might be a tad bit tricky although possible.

    8. minimize the regulatory burden of the US in accordance with #6.
    Do industries regulate themselves or are we to believe externalities will suddenly disappear?

    9. lower unemployment benefits, and impose drastic cuts to the welfare state in accordance with #6.
    Ehhhh.... Reform as opposed to cuts is optimal in my opinion. Why? Because **** does happen, and not everyone has the ability/fortitude to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Is Social Darwinism your end all desire?

    10. immigration reform which imposes a minimum $5,000 fine or 1 year in prison for each illegal immigrant knowingly hired by an employer.
    One way to boost the economy (while lowering GDP/capita) is to allow the floodgates to be open, and promote a heavy onslaught of legal immigration.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I can agree on cutting taxes on middle to lower end income earners as they tend to spend the majority of their incomes thereby creating a steady multiplier in which to feel confident about.
    There's nothing left to cut other than payroll taxes and that's not going to help anybody. Middle to lower end income earners don't pay income tax as it is.

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    And watch demand take a nasty turn to the left (pun intended).
    i don't think so. people tend to forget that government deficit spending does not increase aggregate demand; it only shifts it around. all that stimulus spending is doing is crowding out private investment in favor of political cronies. you'd see some readjustment, to be sure, but i'd bet you'd see more than enough counter-investment due to the sudden drop in uncertainty.

    In this economic climate, you would be correct.
    yup; i'd say right now uncertainty about the costs of this and obama care are probably one of (if not the) main reason why employers aren't looking to hire.

    Well.... Something has to be done as something is better than nothing. And since there is no talk of a public option, i have no idea why you would be against such measures.
    "something" is not always better than nothing. Arguing that we should pass the Senate bill because it's not as bad as the House version is like arguing that we should shoot ourselves in the foot rather than the face; a better option to be sure but why shoot yourself at all?

    That is a mixed bag if i have ever seen one. During periods of very low monetary velocity, cutting taxes will be less than desirable.
    i have to disagree; permanently cutting taxes is likely to put that money back into circulation in much more productive ways than government spending. nor do i think that one of the major issues we are facing currently is that we haven't been spending enough. rather the opposite, i think; we need a cultural shift in how we approach consumer spending, debt, and savings.

    I can agree on cutting taxes on middle to lower end income earners as they tend to spend the majority of their incomes thereby creating a steady multiplier in which to feel confident about.
    ah. but not on those small business owners who create the vast majority of America's new jobs?

    Debt payment plan? Are you aware that treasury securities mature on a daily basis?
    yes, debt payment plan. not as a means of paying out matured securities; as a means of reducing our debt exposure overall. we service our debt, to be sure, but we roll it over into new debt.

    I can agree with this; but only to a certain point. It is a matter of national security to be able to produce much of ones food.
    The US Government purchases, stores, and destroys massive amounts of food because the American farmer produces more than he can sell, both here and abroad at the subsidized prices. The Midwest has served as the breadbasket of the world; I tend to look on the "national security" argument as a red herring.

    I can agree with that. Realizing it however might be a tad bit tricky although possible.
    it would be a powerful diplomatic tool in creating blocs that give struggling nations a place to go in the face of the rising regional dominance of China and Russia.

    Do industries regulate themselves or are we to believe externalities will suddenly disappear?
    industries regulate themselves as it is; it's just that currently they do it by purchasing politicians to protect their market share.

    Ehhhh.... Reform as opposed to cuts is optimal in my opinion. Why? Because **** does happen, and not everyone has the ability/fortitude to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Is Social Darwinism your end all desire?
    Entertaining that social Darwinism is the immediate tool that the opponents of such measures reach for. I'm not blaming you, mind you; it's the way we are taught. But these programs were put in place by social Darwinists for the purpose of social Darwinism. Even Paul Krugman recognizes that unemployment benefits increase unemployment.

    One way to boost the economy (while lowering GDP/capita) is to allow the floodgates to be open, and promote a heavy onslaught of legal immigration.
    If they can be integrated into the legitimate economy, instead of being integrated into a black market economy and a welfare system, yes. But we have opted for the second rather than the first and we need to fix that before we can worry about mass integration.

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    Re: Jobless Rate Holds at 9.7%; Weather Cited in Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i don't think so. people tend to forget that government deficit spending does not increase aggregate demand; it only shifts it around.
    Nonsense. During a full employment GDP gap, AD has been shifted to the left thereby lowering overall demand. Why has this shift occurred? Because spending has been reduced which is why government has the means necessary to "smooth" out the effects.

    all that stimulus spending is doing is crowding out private investment in favor of political cronies.
    Ah ha! Now we are getting somewhere. But to make a truly telling analysis, we have to dissect the nature of investment demand. Why..... Oh why do private investors feel the need... the desire... to invest into low yield securities offered by the public when they can put money into various aspects of private debt or equities that pay far greater returns?

    Ill wait

    you'd see some readjustment, to be sure, but i'd bet you'd see more than enough counter-investment due to the sudden drop in uncertainty.
    What will suddenly drop the uncertainty facing both consumers and/or producers?

    yup; i'd say right now uncertainty about the costs of this and obama care are probably one of (if not the) main reason why employers aren't looking to hire.
    Nope! First and foremost, not all industries face decreased marginal profitability due to cap and trade. Secondly, the effect (cost) of health care reform is quite ambiguous in respects to firm profitability. You are going to have to do more than make blanket assertions.

    "something" is not always better than nothing. Arguing that we should pass the Senate bill because it's not as bad as the House version is like arguing that we should shoot ourselves in the foot rather than the face; a better option to be sure but why shoot yourself at all?
    Relating health care reform not sponsored by talk radio to shooting ourselves carries no merit. The costs of medicare are needed to be reduced long term if any talk of fiscal responsibility is to be taken seriously.

    i have to disagree; permanently cutting taxes is likely to put that money back into circulation in much more productive ways than government spending.
    Going back to EGTRRA in 2001, what was the net effect of the Bush tax cuts? 2/3 were saved and not spent thereby negating the entire premise of tax cuts based on the guise of stimulation (what you are perceiving them to be). As deficits increase, tax cuts cannot be internalized by tax payers as being "permanent".

    nor do i think that one of the major issues we are facing currently is that we haven't been spending enough. rather the opposite, i think; we need a cultural shift in how we approach consumer spending, debt, and savings.
    It most certainly is. A $1.5 trillion infrastructure stimulus would have been optimal (especially if we could have phased it into a three year plan).



    ah. but not on those small business owners who create the vast majority of America's new jobs?
    Have you lived under a rock? The largest aspect of the current stimulus was in regards to tax cut/breaks.



    yes, debt payment plan. not as a means of paying out matured securities; as a means of reducing our debt exposure overall. we service our debt, to be sure, but we roll it over into new debt.
    With a balanced budget (no deficit), the debt will naturally expire as stipulated on the investors purchase of various instruments. You cannot make a 30 year treasury expire any sooner.

    The US Government purchases, stores, and destroys massive amounts of food because the American farmer produces more than he can sell, both here and abroad at the subsidized prices.
    Care to expand on this a tad bit more with some quality sources? Not that i disagree with your premise entirely, but i feel you are leaving things out as a matter of convenience.

    The Midwest has served as the breadbasket of the world; I tend to look on the "national security" argument as a red herring.
    I am only explaining one of the main concerns in regards to international trade. You are the one claiming we do not need as many American farmers.

    it would be a powerful diplomatic tool in creating blocs that give struggling nations a place to go in the face of the rising regional dominance of China and Russia.
    First, we have to consider the net effects on international trade before we can assume other positive externalities of free trade agreements.

    industries regulate themselves as it is; it's just that currently they do it by purchasing politicians to protect their market share.
    That does not answer my question (weak attempt to shuffle). In the absence of US regulatory authority, would all private firms self regulate?

    Entertaining that social Darwinism is the immediate tool that the opponents of such measures reach for. I'm not blaming you, mind you; it's the way we are taught. But these programs were put in place by social Darwinists for the purpose of social Darwinism. Even Paul Krugman recognizes that unemployment benefits increase unemployment.
    Care to provide a quote?

    If they can be integrated into the legitimate economy, instead of being integrated into a black market economy and a welfare system, yes. But we have opted for the second rather than the first and we need to fix that before we can worry about mass integration.
    I can agree. But we must first consider what draws immigrants (legal or illegal) into the black market.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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