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Thread: JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

  1. #21
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    Re: JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I brought my daughter to the gang unit office where guys were investigating cases and planning search warrants. And, I brought my work home to my house (I felt like there was minimal risk, but there was still some risk). These days, that would be forbidden as it would be called a lawsuit waiting to happen. But allowing my clients to interact with my kids, cooking for them, having them eat with my family--that was seen by my clients as a huge act of trust and a privilege.

    Personally, I think the concerns are overblown. I guess there are so many badly behaved children out there that people have forgotten that this used to be rather commonplace for many of us.
    Any risk was to your daughter. I don't see the correlation with the situation at hand.

    I don't see how people think that children going to work with their parents is appropriate for every job. It depends on the specifics of the job. In this circumstance, the safety of planes and their passengers was at issue. Children have no business being there. I don't care how quiet they are. They are a distraction, whether a positive one or a negative one.

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    Re: JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by aps
    In this circumstance, the safety of planes and their passengers was at issue.
    How so????
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    To add, this posed a very dire safety concern - what made the pilot feel ok with an unfamiliar and unidentified voice over the air? What if the tower was taken over in some bizarre terrorist attack and some idiot was streaming out commands or something?
    It's hard to explain in less than six pages about how the air traffic control system works, but the short of it is there are no circumstances in which this could have put anybody in danger.

    The father issued the "position and hold" instructions, which direct the plane to taxi out onto the runway and get ready, but not take off just yet. The following instruction will be "clear for takeoff," which the kid issued. After takeoff, the plane's initial actions are pre-determined. There aren't any control instructions to issue because the departure is standard. The tower doesn't have anything to do but relay any changes the departure controller has issued or, lacking that, just hand off the departing aircraft to the departure controller.

    I'm not saying this was a good idea, I agree a (short) suspension might be in order just to satisfy the public, and a stern warning issued department-wide saying "HEY DONT DO THAT," but that's it.
    Last edited by Deuce; 03-04-10 at 10:40 AM.
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    Re: JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    Any risk was to your daughter. I don't see the correlation with the situation at hand.

    I don't see how people think that children going to work with their parents is appropriate for every job. It depends on the specifics of the job. In this circumstance, the safety of planes and their passengers was at issue. Children have no business being there. I don't care how quiet they are. They are a distraction, whether a positive one or a negative one.
    But staying with THIS instance...the employee was there...the supervisor was there. its OBVIOUS the kid had been given lines to relay to the pilots and he did it VERY welll. The pilots obviously werent upset that they were given on-ground instructions by a minor, in fact they sounded enthusiastic and supportive.

    I think sometimes people get a burr in their underwear and instead of changing drawers they get pissy about any and everything they read, hear, or come in contact with.

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    Re: JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

    I think this whole fiasco is the result of two things:

    1. The ignorance of people regarding how air traffic control works and the mysticism surrounding flying. People subconsciously think that flying is incredibly risky, even if they personally believe it's safe, and so anything regarding messing with air flight is very sensitive.

    2. The "blanket solution" that society applies to problems ends up transforming normal acts into wrongdoing and blanket condemnation. I think that the whole security culture that has spawned since 9/11 has significantly contributed to this.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 03-04-10 at 11:00 AM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    Any risk was to your daughter. I don't see the correlation with the situation at hand.

    I don't see how people think that children going to work with their parents is appropriate for every job. It depends on the specifics of the job. In this circumstance, the safety of planes and their passengers was at issue. Children have no business being there. I don't care how quiet they are. They are a distraction, whether a positive one or a negative one.
    I do not believe that anyone was at risk in this situation and that the response to it is a complete overreaction.

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    Re: JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    How so????
    I can read Deuce's words and think, "Yeah, safety wasn't compromised," but I cannot make that conclusion myself.

    I don't see how a child directing air traffic poses no risk. But that's me. People can disagree with me and tell me how wrong I am, but I stand by my assesment. The suspension was proper--the employee was an idiot, IMHO.

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    Re: JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I do not believe that anyone was at risk in this situation and that the response to it is a complete overreaction.
    That's your opinion. That's fine.

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    Re: JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    But staying with THIS instance...the employee was there...the supervisor was there. its OBVIOUS the kid had been given lines to relay to the pilots and he did it VERY welll. The pilots obviously werent upset that they were given on-ground instructions by a minor, in fact they sounded enthusiastic and supportive.

    I think sometimes people get a burr in their underwear and instead of changing drawers they get pissy about any and everything they read, hear, or come in contact with.
    I see what you're saying. Someone is feeding the kid lines. I get it. But when the employee parent is feeding the kid lines, is the employee parent giving the situation his undivided attention? Nope. Hey, I can drive my car while talking on the phone (speaker or ear piece) or talking to someone else that is present in the car with me, is my concentration affected? ABSOLUTELY. So this business that the child repeating his father's words has no impact on his father's concentration is BS, IMO.

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    Re: JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    I can read Deuce's words and think, "Yeah, safety wasn't compromised," but I cannot make that conclusion myself.

    I don't see how a child directing air traffic poses no risk. But that's me. People can disagree with me and tell me how wrong I am, but I stand by my assesment. The suspension was proper--the employee was an idiot, IMHO.
    Did anyone crash? Did you hear any of the pilots screaming HOLY FU## but the real guy back on...oh my god we're all gonna die!!!!?
    Last edited by VanceMack; 03-04-10 at 11:24 AM.

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