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Thread: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

  1. #141
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Trying to use freedom of speech as a comparative doesn't really work that well, because bullets aren't speech!
    Irreelevant. The standard is sound and valid.

    The first amendment does not protect 'speech' that causes actual harm (like libel and slander' or places people in a state of immediate, clear and present danger (like inciting a riot or falsely yelling fire in a theater).

    This creates a perfectly good - and I would argue, as these limits are based on the precept that rights extend only as far as they interfere with the rightsof others, the the only legitimate - model for 'reasonable' restrictions on the right to arms, as they are eaxples of restricting actions on the bass that they lie outside the right itself.

    So, again, I ask:
    What's the 2nd Amedment analogue to yelling fire in a corwded theater?
    To libel? Slander?
    Fighting words? Inciting a riot?

  2. #142
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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Does anyone know what law banned the open carrying of fire arms? I'm just wondering why we can't walk the streets with a 6 shooter (or 2 or more) strapped to our waist. Why can't we ride a horse (or vehicle) into town with a 30-30 on your shoulder...
    It wasn't to long ago we could do that. and the crime wasn't nearly as bad as it is today, random crime that is.

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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    It wasn't to long ago we could do that. and the crime wasn't nearly as bad as it is today, random crime that is.
    Do you have any statistic on that or is that your NRA propaganda opinion?

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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Do you have any statistic on that or is that your NRA propaganda opinion?
    It doesn't really matter because you can't directly relate gun rights to crime rates. Correlation/Causation etc. There is a correlation but crime is such a vastly complicated sum of economic and social variables that you just can't simplify it like that.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #145
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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Do you have any statistic on that or is that your NRA propaganda opinion?
    It requires a little legwork, but if you when you have some time try the FBI violent crime database and check the time periods before heavy gun regulations and then compare them to after. You'll have to compare all violent crimes instead of just gun related, also, check those against international statistics. While England and Australia showed a drop in gun crime, overall violence stats went up, and ironically, if I remember correctly the heaviest regulated areas in the U.S. actually saw rises in gun crime.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    It requires a little legwork, but if you when you have some time try the FBI violent crime database and check the time periods before heavy gun regulations and then compare them to after. You'll have to compare all violent crimes instead of just gun related, also, check those against international statistics. While England and Australia showed a drop in gun crime, overall violence stats went up, and ironically, if I remember correctly the heaviest regulated areas in the U.S. actually saw rises in gun crime.
    OK, I'll wait while you dig it up.

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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    OK, so you CAN bring a gun into a bar. I'm not claiming to be static in this discussion in my position because I'm unsure of whether it's reasonable to allow the States to limit or restrict certain rights where they feel it's appropriate or not.
    You can wear a firearm into a bar...but you can't drink while it's on your person. You have to remain sober.

  8. #148
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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It doesn't really matter because you can't directly relate gun rights to crime rates.
    But, you CAN show that though the number of guns across the country increases, the crime rates stay within a relatively narrow range.

    If more guns = more crime, then as the number of guns goes up, so then too does the number of crimes.

  9. #149
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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You can wear a firearm into a bar...but you can't drink while it's on your person. You have to remain sober.
    we ought to apply that rule to posting on this board



  10. #150
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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    But, you CAN show that though the number of guns across the country increases, the crime rates stay within a relatively narrow range.

    If more guns = more crime, then as the number of guns goes up, so then too does the number of crimes.
    guns last a long time--the one my grandfather carried in WWI is now mine and while I haven't shot it in years, it still works as well as any modern 1911.

    The number of guns go way up because they have a service life of at least 10,000 rounds and that is more rounds than all but hard core competitiors will shoot (and that means a life before the gun needs servicing-I had a colt gold cup that finally suffered a cracked frame after 350,000 rounds) and for every gun lost or destroyed (ie confiscated by law enforcement) dozens are sold. Yet crime has not gone up

    Why> because guns in the hands of honest people act to depress criminal activity while guns in the hands of criminals increase crime. Criminals have guns no matter what the law so that amount is pretty well static



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