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Thread: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    For some reason some people think appeal to majority is somehow superior to the constitution, it makes me wonder what has gone wrong with our educational system that they can't understand the very plain english of the constitution or our founding writings.
    That's an easy one...... the federal government runs it.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The problem is that exactly what constitutes "arms" is debatable.

    Pistol? Sure.
    Rifle? Why not.
    Automatic rifle? Fine by me, virtually no crimes have ever been committed with automatic weapons. (someone explain to the media what automatic really is, please!)
    Grenade launcher? Errr, getting sketchy.
    Patriot missile battery? Ummm
    Tank?
    Nuclear warheads?

    Not too many people would argue that nuclear weapons should be legal for private ownership. Similarly, not too many people would argue that you should never be able to own a gun at any time or place. While I hate the cliche, the answer is surely somewhere in between.
    Why not nukes?..... sell them for $1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.99

    What's an M1A1 go for these days?.... plus a box of shells.

    How about a Patriot Missile Battery? Bet a box of shells for that might just put the whole idea out of range for most citizens.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    We the people decide that some things are dangerous to the populace and restrict them. That was pretty simple.
    Yet the same bureaucrats and politicians who want to disarm one group of citizens have also determined that many of these weapons are ideal for other civilians to use in urban environments for self defense.

    In other words-no state, municipal, local or federal civilian law enforcement agency should be able to use weapons that the political entity controlling that agency has declared are too dangerous for other civilians to merely possess.

    Once a political entity has determined that a weapon is suitable for civlian law enforcement officers to be provided by our tax dollars, that political entity should be estopped from banning the possession of such weapons by other honest civilians



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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I guess I could say that you can't bring a firearm into a bar. Does that qualify?
    you cannot fire a firearm in a bar unless you are threatened

    that is exactly the same as saying you cannot scream fire in a theater unless there is a fire.



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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Considering you used the argument that the Bill of Rights doesn't protect the individual and the second specifically by abusing the secondary militia argument, I don't think I've made any mistakes in where you stand. How can you be on board with the second amendment conditionally? The "reasonable" regulations do nothing to curb violence and have been known to in fact encourage crime spikes, "reasonable" regulations are not preemptive. You used the shouting fire example, the way that prohibited speech works is that there is a demonstrable danger which is immenent, clear, and present and the mere utterance of those words or phrases will cause harm, either that of body, public safety, or character, this is not compatible with saying that because people own guns other people get shot, the two are not causal on their face, whereas utterances of threats, fighting words, and panic inducing phrases are. You'll have to think of something more concrete.
    OK, so you CAN bring a gun into a bar. I'm not claiming to be static in this discussion in my position because I'm unsure of whether it's reasonable to allow the States to limit or restrict certain rights where they feel it's appropriate or not.

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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I'm unsure of whether it's reasonable to allow the States to limit or restrict certain rights where they feel it's appropriate or not.
    It's a healthy attitude to have. I'd answer that as "no", the rights of the individual rules over the desires and whims of the State. But it's always good to at least have that question in your head..."Is this appropriate action of the State, is it within their granted powers to do so?".
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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    OK, so you CAN bring a gun into a bar. I'm not claiming to be static in this discussion in my position because I'm unsure of whether it's reasonable to allow the States to limit or restrict certain rights where they feel it's appropriate or not.
    I cannot for the life of me remember the state at this time, maybe SC, but they want to allow CCW permit holders to be able to carry into bars, most states have a prohibition against such. The caviotte though is that CCW holders cannot consume alcohol while armed, I think that is reasonable considering the judgement effects alcohol can have on the human mind.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    OK, so you CAN bring a gun into a bar. I'm not claiming to be static in this discussion in my position because I'm unsure of whether it's reasonable to allow the States to limit or restrict certain rights where they feel it's appropriate or not.
    Tennessee recently made it legal for CCW's to carry in a bar, but not to do so while drinking. So far, there have been no reports of any problems relating to this practice.

    I'm pretty sure TN is not the only state where this is allowed.

    A prerequisite of getting a CCW is having a history of being a law-abiding citizen... the stats back up that law-abiding CCW permit holders cause far less trouble than the general population.

    It is the people who are inclined to break the law who are the problem, and they don't base their decision to go armed or not on whether it is legal or not.

    For decades, the pendulum swung way too far to the side of disarming honest citizens in the name of "public safety". However, now the pendulum is swinging the other way, and it has momentum. A lot of this is because people have realized that gun control laws in the US do not have positive effects on crime, but armed citizens do.

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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I cannot for the life of me remember the state at this time, maybe SC, but they want to allow CCW permit holders to be able to carry into bars, most states have a prohibition against such. The caviotte though is that CCW holders cannot consume alcohol while armed, I think that is reasonable considering the judgement effects alcohol can have on the human mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Tennessee recently made it legal for CCW's to carry in a bar, but not to do so while drinking. So far, there have been no reports of any problems relating to this practice.

    I'm pretty sure TN is not the only state where this is allowed.

    A prerequisite of getting a CCW is having a history of being a law-abiding citizen... the stats back up that law-abiding CCW permit holders cause far less trouble than the general population.

    It is the people who are inclined to break the law who are the problem, and they don't base their decision to go armed or not on whether it is legal or not.

    For decades, the pendulum swung way too far to the side of disarming honest citizens in the name of "public safety". However, now the pendulum is swinging the other way, and it has momentum. A lot of this is because people have realized that gun control laws in the US do not have positive effects on crime, but armed citizens do.
    So States CAN and do actually restrict who can have guns in certain places and ban guns in certain places? Is this similar to the Chicago issue?

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    Re: Supreme Court Hears Arguments On Chicago Gun Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    So States CAN and do actually restrict who can have guns in certain places and ban guns in certain places? Is this similar to the Chicago issue?
    Basically in cases like this, the Federal government sets the bar and states may not be more restrictive than what the Federal government has established.

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