Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 81

Thread: Five European states back burka ban

  1. #51
    Educator Alvin T. Grey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Dublin
    Last Seen
    10-08-10 @ 07:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    839

    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Rice a roni. Your point being?
    People of like background tend to congregate. That is slightly different from forming an enclave though.




    By very nature, Sharia violates the basic notion of equal protection under the law, because a woman's testimony is regarded as less than a man's.
    Only if both parties agree to use this form of Arbitration.

    Also, you are not telling the truth about the legality of such sharia court decisions in Britain. They ARE legally binding.
    As is any contractual obligation. If you agree to abide by it.

    From my article:
    In 1996, Parliament passed the Arbitration Act setting out rules under which parties in a dispute have the right to go to an impartial tribunal to get justice without expensive litigation. Muslims lawyers interpreted this as meaning that sharia courts could act as arbitration panels under the Act, they began in 2007, and their decisions are legally binding.
    It bears mentioning that just in any form of arbitration, there is always recourse to the Court.
    Last edited by Alvin T. Grey; 03-03-10 at 11:10 AM.

  2. #52
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Please show us where it is said in the Qur'an that women must wear burkas.

    We'll wait.
    Please show us where in the Bible it says that nuns must wear habits, priests must wear frocks, and orthodox jewish women must wear their particular garb.

    I'll wait.

    Do you really mean to argue that unless something is explicitly rooted in a verbatim passage of the most holy book of a religion, it cannot be considered a religious practice?

    LOL You are comparing guns to burkas?

    Can you think rationally for just a second and explain how you defend a garment, ANY garment that covers the entire body from head to toe including the face?
    Because they choose to wear it and I don't think it's my job or the state's to tell someone else how to practice their religion.

    Did you even bother to read the link of the woman who tried to get her license wearing her burka which blocked out her entire face?
    And that's an entirely different scenario. There's nothing wrong with requiring people to show their faces for places where there's a compelling government interest, as it's a reasonable intrusion on that right. However, it is absolutely unreasonable to ban it in scenarios where it's not necessary. That's how constitutional protections work in this country, and I believe that our system is a model for the world.

    You know that such a ban would immediately be declared unconstitutional here in the US, right? I've never seen so many conservatives clamoring for a more European view of individual rights.

    Are you so far gone you can't even acknolwedge how that can be a problem?
    No, I just don't think you're really thinking through your stance on this issue. This is not about whether you think women should be forced to have their faces covered. It's about religious freedom.

    Think about it this way - the argument most frequently advanced in favor of this ban is that the burqa is anti-female because it restricts her rights and diminishes her status. If we start banning things because of that, what would you say if the government tried to pass a law banning churches from having all-male priesthoods? What about if the government banned bibles on the grounds that some passages constituted anti-woman hate speech?

    If you genuinely care about religious freedoms and individual liberty, I can't see how you can support these proposals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    By very nature, Sharia violates the basic notion of equal protection under the law, because a woman's testimony is regarded as less than a man's. Also, you are not telling the truth about the legality of such sharia court decisions in Britain. They ARE legally binding.
    This is one of the most frequently misconstrued issues. "Sharia courts" are not courts in the sense that people think of them, they're simply arbitral tribunals. They're legally binding, just like any arbitration proceeding. If you and I were adherents of the Taco religion and decided to establish a Taco "court," the arbitral decisions of that Taco court would be as binding as anything in a sharia court. Same goes for an atheist "court."
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 03-03-10 at 12:47 PM.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  3. #53
    Hippie Hater
    texmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Dallas TEXAS
    Last Seen
    08-20-15 @ 01:17 AM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    3,969

    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I've read and heard countless stories of burqas being used by those of faith and others posing as those of faith in all sorts of incidences.
    Again for the 4th time, you have no direct evidence supporting your assumptions on the reason why they are not supported.

    Yes, I even read your links. All very classic crimes, though, don't you think? Even the terorist attacks - you don't possibly for one second feel that it wouldnt have been possible without the use of a burqa as concealment?
    Obviously you missed the link on the woman who wanted to wear her full body burka while getting her driver's license picture taken. Funny how you claim you read them all but missed that one

    Banning the burqa would not have prevented those crimes.
    Ah we are back to the mind reading game.

    Evident by the fact that crimes are committed every single day without burqas being used.
    LOL That's like saying because not every crime uses automatic weapons they should never have restrictions. Are you seriously making that ridiculous argument?

    In the cases where they were worn to conceal weapons (as one focus) are you really suggesting that their crimes would NOT have been committed or possible if they wore a dress or face paint instead of a burqa? They chose the burqa, they could have easily chosen a house dress or a coat.
    Not to conceal their faces absolutely not. Your comparison is completely blown when you actually stop to think about it.

    I also don't feel that they would have to go to the extreme of banning a burqa in order to address the issue of the woman wanting to conceal her face in her ID photo. That is actually an incident in which a compromise should have (and was) struck.
    For you to use that initial lack of compromise as a support for banning the entire garb is pure stupidity.
    No compromise has been offered has it so once again, how do you know?

    Your ignorance coupled with an incredible arrogance of what you think everyone else is thinking is amazing.

    I think it's odd, to say the least, that you and others seem to suggest and firmly believe that these incidences or crimes would have happened if they weren't wearing a burqa.
    I never said that. Once again you are mind reading and failing miserably at it.

    The point is burkas that cover the face are a serious security risk.

    The only concern that I see to be legitimate is the issue about the photo-ID - but I wouldn't consider banning the burqa to be the solution, obviously.
    Then what would you do? She was adamant that the entire burka be worn. What do you do then?
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

  4. #54
    Hippie Hater
    texmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Dallas TEXAS
    Last Seen
    08-20-15 @ 01:17 AM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    3,969

    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Please show us where in the Bible it says that nuns must wear habits, priests must wear frocks, and orthodox jewish women must wear their particular garb.

    I'll wait.
    It doesn't but nothing you mentioned is ever worn all the time so once again you fail at yet another comparison.

    The point is there is no religious texts reuqiring burkas be worm by all Muslim women.

    Your laughable comparison to outfits worn by people who work for the church is a pathetic attempt at comparison.

    Do you really mean to argue that unless something is explicitly rooted in a verbatim passage of the most holy book of a religion, it cannot be considered a religious practice?
    It would certainly help the argument claiming it is part of a religion yeah

    Because they choose to wear it and I don't think it's my job or the state's to tell someone else how to practice their religion.
    If it interferes with basic security you bet it does.

    And that's an entirely different scenario.
    No it isn't. It goes to the heart of the matter.

    There's nothing wrong with requiring people to show their faces for places where there's a compelling government interest, as it's a reasonable intrusion on that right. However, it is absolutely unreasonable to ban it in scenarios where it's not necessary. That's how constitutional protections work in this country, and I believe that our system is a model for the world.
    Then you don't have a clue what you are arguing since many Muslims demand women's faces be covered at all times.

    It would really help if you actually knew what you are trying to defend before someone on the other side has to point it out to you.

    You know that such a ban would immediately be declared unconstitutional here in the US, right?
    No, I don't. If it was explicit to covering the entire body including the face.

    I've never seen so many conservatives clamoring for a more European view of individual rights.
    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

    No, I just don't think you're really thinking through your stance on this issue. This is not about whether you think women should be forced to have their faces covered. It's about religious freedom.
    Again it is not a requirement of the religion so that argument is completely unfounded. How many different ways does this need to be said before you get it?

    Think about it this way - the argument most frequently advanced in favor of this ban is that the burqa is anti-female because it restricts her rights and diminishes her status.
    How do you know this? What are you citing as evidence this is true?

    If we start banning things because of that, what would you say if the government tried to pass a law banning churches from having all-male priesthoods? What about if the government banned bibles on the grounds that some passages constituted anti-woman hate speech?
    You can throw out all the "what if" arguments you want it still wont change the fact that a burka that covers the entire body is a security problem.

    If you genuinely care about religious freedoms and individual liberty, I can't see how you can support these proposals.
    Since you cannot even cite the religious law requiring this it isn't a valid argument. It is cultural not religious.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

  5. #55
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    I'm not going to spend more time line-by-line quoting and responding when you and I won't be changing each others minds on this.

    You support the ban for a variety of reason, you feel all these reasons are legitimate.

    I don't support it for a variety of reason and I feel the ban is illegitimate regardless of what reason someone might side with on it.

    I'd go on with this further if it were being considered in the United States, but it's not - and I can't help but apply our country's standards, Constitution and respect for religious practices while considering this issue.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  6. #56
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The only way that anything in this post would even begin to make sense would be if Christians refused to let women speak in church or teach in school. Since that's obviously not the case, I can't fathom what you're getting at or how it's remotely on-topic.
    I think I'll just let you ignore Aunt Spikers post as my rebuttal.

  7. #57
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    When the Left is doing everything it can to destroy the Second Amendment?

    Don't look to the First for protection if the people needed to defend the First don't have guns to back them up.
    Generalize much?

  8. #58
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    What's going ot happen is that when the muslims get electoral majorities in those nations they're going to cite the Burqa Ban as precedent and ban halter-tops, bikinis, shorts, short skirts, and bared heads on all women in the nations they've invaded.

    Also, those foolish European countries are failing to heed Franklin's dictum that those who give up a little freedom for a little security deserve neither.

    The correct thing to do is make sure that all businesses have the freedom to exclude all persons not conforming to whatever dress code the business chooses to impose. If Bob's First National Bank of France decides that it won't allow burqa-people onto it's premises, then burqa-people can't do business at the bank. Bob doesn't have to give a reason.

    If Harold's Fruit and Vegetable Emporium doesn't want burqa-people in his shop, then burqa-people have to shop elsewhere.

    The problem comes when the government owned transportation services want to eliminate burqa-people. THAT is wrongful discrimination. Too bad Europe abandoned the free market.
    Amazingly, I agree with you on this (except that Europe has not abandoned the "free market" any more than the USA has). What you are really talking about is using shame and inconvenience. The problem being that small business may not be able to afford to turn away a segment of their customer base and large corporations could give a **** about where the money comes from. Shame and ridicule can still work, it's one of the ways Christianity has been liberalized... that and the inconvenience of trying to adhere to ancient dictates in a modernized society.

  9. #59
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    You have GOT to be kidding with that comparison

    The burka is not part of a religious order of Islam!

    Did you even know that?

    Seriously, that comparison is really pathetic. Try reading how terrorists exploit the anaminity of the burka I listed below as a device to conseal their identity.

    When you have men dressed as nun's blowing up crowds of people you be sure to let us know mmmkay?
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Actually, it does matter.

    Niqabs and Burqas as Security Threats :: Daniel Pipes

    Burka Attack in Afghanistan ? Winds Of Jihad By SheikYerMami

    The Lambeth Walk: Armed Robbery Committed by 'Asian' Man Dressed in Burqa


    Althouse: The completely covered face in the driver's license photo.

    Not only is it subjugating women but its being exploited by terrorists and used to circumvent identification.



    Can we please stop the stupidity of comparing a nun's outfit to a burka?

    Thats like comparing a priests' outfit to a smoking jacket
    It's not surprising that you fail to understand the analogy. You're a fundamentalist Christian right?

  10. #60
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    My points are quite legitimate - you just don't want to accept that your argument for the ban is biased.
    You're mistaken, he simply doesn't understand the argument and frankly I don't think he can understand it because of his blind faith in Christianity which fuels his hatred for other religions, especially those religions which directly threaten his own... like Islam.

Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •