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Thread: Five European states back burka ban

  1. #41
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Banning the burka will achieve nothing at all.


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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    In many of these countries though they are violating religious freedom. They give Muslims special communities so they can subjugate each other to legally binding Shari'ah law.
    Thats not quite how it works.
    There are no muslim enclaves as such. People of a common ethnicity tend to congregate though. It happens everywhere. The Irish settled mostly in Boston, New York and Phillie. The Nordic races went to Minesota. The Cubans tend to stay in Florida, and the Extra Terrestrials have California....
    It's not just race. For example what is San Fransisco famous for?

    And as far as Sharia law is concerned, those courts are for aribitration between individuals (a civil court) as it were. Those judgements are only legaly binding if they don't contravine national law. For example you can draw up an agreement between two individuals and have disputes arbitrated in a sharia court if both parties wish. However they don't have the force of law.
    -snip-
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...g-1724486.html

    But if a married couple choose to take their marital problems to a religious leader, or if Muslim businessmen appeal to a cleric to settle a financial dispute, that is their affair, assuming that both parties are there voluntarily. In such cases, the issue is not whether a fatwa issued by a sharia court is against the law but whether it has any force in law.

    It's a very Libertarian view, because the state stays the heck out of it unless needed.


    While at the same time they silence Christianity and discriminate in favor of Muslims.
    They don't discriminate in favour of anyone.

    I don't really support a Burqa ban (accept for in airports, who knows what they could smuggle in there),
    And there is your problem. How do you know that the person under the Burka is a muslim?
    but I also think they need to remove the Shari'ah communities, this is more unconstitutional and is completely against a church and state separation.
    Thats the point. The state isn't envolved.
    Last edited by Alvin T. Grey; 03-03-10 at 09:03 AM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The fact that there are Americans in favor of this ban is absolutely mind-boggling.

    Just so you understand, you're favoring a government deciding what people can wear in a manner directed solely at one particular religion.
    Or multiple religions - yet not all religions.

    I'm actually not surprised at some Americans supporting this action - its very easy to be against something when it doesn't affect you.

    However, imagine how Tex and others would feel if something that was an intricate part of their daily life was loathed by others and eventually taken away for whatever reason. They'd have a fit and be toting the 1st Amendment around like it was their BFFL.

    Such sided things only are supported by a mass number of people when it doesn't affect them.

    While learning more about this subject I was surprised to read that the full-body garb of the various Middle Eastern faiths have been rallied against, banned or other some sort of attack for centuries.

    After reading on the lengthy history concerning the chador, purdah (as in the clothing garb, not the family-home) I, now, equate these many "ban the burqa, ban the minarets" sentiments to be equal to the fear mongering that Hitler conjured up and wielded to rally against the Jews and bring around the Holocaust. OR the attitudes that kept slavery and racism alive for so long in the US (which were still struggling with on a whole in our country).

    I'm sure some will think that's extreme - but it makes sense if you think about it.
    Hitler blamed them for all problems that plagued Europe and his government.
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    When he was in power he used his passion against them and his power in office to raise support and force people to comply to his wishes and exterminate them.

    What I simply don't understand is why people aren't supporting the rights for the women to make the choice as to the laws they follow - rather than making those choices for them.

    They're just swapping out Shariah Law which requires something - with a government law that bans something. There's no middle ground, there. No attempt to compromise or reason with anyone.
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I have yet to hear a legitimate reason to ban the burqa. It all is illegitimate, based on unwarrented fear, misplaced blame, paranoia, and people who consider things as in a worst case scenerio light only.

    Have your view all you like, thankfully banning the burqa in the United States would violate the 1st Amendment and be knocked down if brought before Congress or the SCOTUS.
    Its been given to you 3 times and you still ignore it.

    Since you obviously didn't read the links I gave you it explained quite easily where the burka when used to cover the entire body would be an issue but that would require you to actually think about what you were arguing and actually reading the argument against you.

    But since you are perfectly content to ignore the argument for banning the burka and instead come up with your own reason without a shred of evidence to support you that everyone who is against it is anti-Muslim its no surprise at all you've once again run away from the true argument.

    I'm still waiting for you to prove your mind reading abilities that all these Europeans are against the burka because they are all anti Muslim and not because it covers the entire body.
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The burqa is absolutely worn as an expression of a religious obligation. The claim that it's somehow areligious because its origin wasn't solely rooted in a church is ridiculous.
    Please show us where it is said in the Qur'an that women must wear burkas.

    We'll wait.

    Which means what? You're saying that the government should be able to take away rights because some people might do something bad with that right. Do you support gun bans because other people might commit crimes with guns?
    LOL You are comparing guns to burkas?

    Can you think rationally for just a second and explain how you defend a garment, ANY garment that covers the entire body from head to toe including the face?

    Did you even bother to read the link of the woman who tried to get her license wearing her burka which blocked out her entire face?

    Are you so far gone you can't even acknolwedge how that can be a problem?
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    I've read and heard countless stories of burqas being used by those of faith and others posing as those of faith in all sorts of incidences. Yes, I even read your links. All very classic crimes, though, don't you think? Even the terorist attacks - you don't possibly for one second feel that it wouldnt have been possible without the use of a burqa as concealment?

    Banning the burqa would not have prevented those crimes. Evident by the fact that crimes are committed every single day without burqas being used.

    In the cases where they were worn to conceal weapons (as one focus) are you really suggesting that their crimes would NOT have been committed or possible if they wore a dress or face paint instead of a burqa? They chose the burqa, they could have easily chosen a house dress or a coat.

    I also don't feel that they would have to go to the extreme of banning a burqa in order to address the issue of the woman wanting to conceal her face in her ID photo. That is actually an incident in which a compromise should have (and was) struck.
    For you to use that initial lack of compromise as a support for banning the entire garb is pure stupidity.

    I think it's odd, to say the least, that you and others seem to suggest and firmly believe that these incidences or crimes would have happened if they weren't wearing a burqa.

    The only concern that I see to be legitimate is the issue about the photo-ID - but I wouldn't consider banning the burqa to be the solution, obviously.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    For example what is San Fransisco famous for?
    Rice a roni. Your point being?


    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    And as far as Sharia law is concerned, those courts are for aribitration between individuals (a civil court) as it were. Those judgements are only legaly binding if they don't contravine national law. For example you can draw up an agreement between two individuals and have disputes arbitrated in a sharia court if both parties wish. However they don't have the force of law.
    -
    By very nature, Sharia violates the basic notion of equal protection under the law, because a woman's testimony is regarded as less than a man's. Also, you are not telling the truth about the legality of such sharia court decisions in Britain. They ARE legally binding.


    Islamic sharia courts in Britain are now 'legally binding' | Mail Online

    Sharia law courts operating in Britain - Telegraph
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post

    What I simply don't understand is why people aren't supporting the rights for the women to make the choice as to the laws they follow - rather than making those choices for them.

    .
    What I don't understand is how people try to twist gender slavery into some sort of feminist movement. How completely Orwellian for you to portray the notion of one person owning another into being some sort of personal choice for the person who is owned. Considering the horrifying consequences so many of these women face if they DON'T say it is their choice, what you are supporting here isn't choice at all, but the continuation of abject degradation.

    While you are at it, could you please advocate for the repeal of other slavery laws?
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Its been given to you 3 times and you still ignore it.

    Since you obviously didn't read the links I gave you it explained quite easily where the burka when used to cover the entire body would be an issue but that would require you to actually think about what you were arguing and actually reading the argument against you.

    But since you are perfectly content to ignore the argument for banning the burka and instead come up with your own reason without a shred of evidence to support you that everyone who is against it is anti-Muslim its no surprise at all you've once again run away from the true argument.

    I'm still waiting for you to prove your mind reading abilities that all these Europeans are against the burka because they are all anti Muslim and not because it covers the entire body.
    So you're in favor of government deciding what people can wear.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    I'm still waiting for you to prove your mind reading abilities that all these Europeans are against the burka because they are all anti Muslim and not because it covers the entire body.
    I think it's quite obviously anti-Muslim. I doubt someone will get a ticket for wearing a ski mask or something like that. I doubt people on Halloween will find themselves in the back of a patrol car. If you're being honest, then you see this for what it is. It's clearly made against Muslims. And it's no surprise that it comes from Europe, as several countries there (like those with these bans) are very xenophobic and have strong....dislikes....for Muslim.

    In the end, it's not even going to do anything but remove women in burka's from the street so people don't have to be reminded of the Muslim population living in their city.
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