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Thread: Five European states back burka ban

  1. #11
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Have you even seen a burka? Doesn't sound like it to make such a ridiculous comparison to other religious symbols.
    Whats the deal to you? You're not wearing it. It doesn't affect you, reflect on you or mean anything to you. You just look at them - sometimes.

    Honestly - I think the only thing that bothers people is the face covering. And not because of why they are suppose to cover the face - but because you simply cannot see the face. It mentally alienates you. Of course, you're presuming that ALL burqas have a face covering and they do not - sometimes they're one garment and sometimes the face covering (hajib or niqab and other names) is separate or not worn at all.

    If it was the entire garb then you would, also, be against the habit - which is a head-to-toe covering for a nun. They vary sect to sect but usually are the same idea.
    The Cassock - which is a male version of a nuns habit and take on a 'dress appearance - only no head covering.
    The alb - which is a religious robe worn by monks.
    Various dresses worn by the Apostolic Pentecostal women, as well as their long hair.

    The only difference between these and the burqa, niqab and chador is that they do not require covering the face in some fashion.
    So why aren't you against those things?

    You just don't respect people's right to have their faith and live how they want to live and find it personally offensive when someone has a style that you consider different.

    If you find it offensive you should support the women who DON'T want to wear it in their effort to break away from this body-garb tradition. NOT just pasting all with a "you can't do it anymore"

    But some women do want to wear them for whatever reason and they should be allowed to if they see fit to do so.

    I don't think you realized that this law is forcing something on women who might have gone their entire lives without having to show their body/face in public - I imagine that suddenly being forced to go without would be quite embarrassing and difficult to go through with for some. I can also imagine that some would rather just be a shut in than feel like people are always looking at them.

    Apparently you don't realize what its like to feel like everyone is looking at you and gawking when you've changed your appearance. . . and for it to be forced on some of them, I can imagine that's just unpleasant to say the least.

    Oh - but your visual-preferences while walking down the street are apparently more important than someone's personal comfort.

    If they mind and don't want to wear it then they shouldn't HAVE to - but no one can tell a religion what to require and what not to require for its followers. So, of course, people will support a biased and senseless war against one religions attire, instead.

    Whats more absurd than everyones bias is that some things have actually been strongly sexualized - like a nun's habit.
    Thus - are you ever going to grow equal opposition and outrage for the nuns on their behalf? Or against their required habit?

    I don't think so.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 03-02-10 at 11:54 AM.
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    A couple of points here I would offer is that banning the Burka does not necessarily target Islam per se, since there is nothing in Islam that actually commands its use. Now, it is certainly misogynistic, the knuckle dragging troglodytes who view women as property are some of the lowest forms of life on the planet, and this revolting anachronism may have no place in a liberal, western society, but it isn't all of Islam supporting it -- only the Islamists. While I would call the Islamists a cult, I would not call all of Islam a cult, since not all of Islam supports it. It may represent PART of Islam just as Landover Babtist represents part of Christianity, but it only furthers the divide to fail to distinguish between Islam and Islamists.

    From where I sit, I'd say there are way too many people who fail to distinguish between Islam and Islamism across the political spectrum. Those on the right tend to lump both together and assail the entire religion, while those on the left are so eager to defend the religion that they indulge in apologia for the Islamism. Neither attitude is especially helpful in the west where there is most definitely a growing population of Islamists who want to subvert the existing cultures, but also Muslims who have assimilated and support western ways.


    ****** This Assimilation might be less than You think. Also a Minority of a Minority can control things simply by dealing Death to those not in compliance. Presently our Islamic (legal) population is well under 2 % I presume . If we ever reach double digits all Hell will break loose.

  3. #13
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    As much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news it's too late to stop Muslim influence in Europe or North America.

    The spread of members of this cult of hate and repression are set to dominate the world if the spread of of the cult is not stopped and very soon.

    Only a cult teaches a reward for the murder of innocent people and subjugates and represses woman.

    Until the west has guts enough to tell the truth about this cult the war on terror and the spread of the cult will continue.

    I don't see the wearing of the Burka as a threat but the teachings most certainly are a threat to Governments and anyone who will not submit to the cult.
    So you're not really that concerned with the supposed imposition on women's rights that the burqa entails, you just don't like Muslims.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Have you even seen a burka? Doesn't sound like it to make such a ridiculous comparison to other religious symbols.


    The only difference between a burqa and any other religion's traditional garb is the niqab, which it doesn't sound like this legislation deals with at all.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post

    The only difference between a burqa and any other religion's traditional garb is the niqab, which it doesn't sound like this legislation deals with at all.
    A niqab is actually part of a burqa, and the picture you showed is not a burqa at all.

    A burqa covers a woman from head to foot, and only included slits for the eyes. It does not reveal the face.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    A niqab is actually part of a burqa, and the picture you showed is not a burqa at all.

    A burqa covers a woman from head to foot, and only included slits for the eyes. It does not reveal the face.
    My apologies, that's what I was trying to say.

    Add a niqab to any of the traditional forms of dress in that picture and you have what is in all material respects a burqa. The point is that nobody objects to the outfits of nuns or orthodox jewish women, so the only real issue to complain about here is the niqab.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    So now its hateful to oppose one culture entering another country and trying to force it to conform to its culture.

    I don't understand the opinions of people like you either.

    My point is that opposition to the burqa is not necessarily intended as intolerance to a religion.

    as opposed to this;

    As much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news it's too late to stop Muslim influence in Europe or North America.

    The spread of members of this cult of hate and repression are set to dominate the world if the spread of of the cult is not stopped and very soon.

    Only a cult teaches a reward for the murder of innocent people and subjugates and represses woman.

    Until the west has guts enough to tell the truth about this cult the war on terror and the spread of the cult will continue.

    I don't see the wearing of the Burka as a threat but the teachings most certainly are a threat to Governments and anyone who will not submit to the cult.
    which clearly is.

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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think the burka is stupid, but so is trying to ban it.
    That's the easiest answer.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    So now its hateful to oppose one culture entering another country and trying to force it to conform to its culture.

    I don't understand the opinions of people like you either.
    Now take what you just said and pretend you are a Native American in the 1600-1900s.

    Or any place in the western world actually. You Christians really are blind to your hypocrisy.

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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    The reason for the variety of Islamic garb is that different eras in history and areas of practice have different standards. The garb has gone through a lot of change and a lot of variations over time - so its become complicated.

    The specific names for the attire or parts of the attire differ depending on where someone is and what influences their attire and so forth.

    I see no one complaining about Middle Eastern men wearing their traditional clothing including body-garb and head dresses, as well. This purely focuses on females clothing.

    That lean is interesting - could be easily construed to be equally as sexist as opponents claim the required clothing in question is.

    When it comes to women and women rights the overall focus and goal is to give women a CHOICE - remove the requirements.
    If someone WANTS to wear their burqa, they should be allowed to - if they don't want to then they shouldn't have to.

    Now, in the US a ban like this would be unconstitutional because it affects ONE religion or culture over another - leaving me to feel that hte supporters of the ban are hypocrites - hiding behind a constitution that they don't truly believe in.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 03-02-10 at 01:11 PM.
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    Re: Five European states back burka ban

    34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

    11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence (1 Timothy 2:11-12)

    Is freedom of speech lost on fundy Christians? What percent of our Christian population is fundamentalist? So let's not get too carried away with "islam treats women badly".

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