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PA. Man dies during storm when 911 calls unheeded

repeter

repeter

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A man in Pittsburgh died when EMT's were unable to reach his apartment. Granted that it was snowing like hell, the responder's didn't even get out of their ambulance to carry the guy out of his apartment. Several calls were made, 3 ambulances dispatched, but they never reached the guy.

Details of Mitchell's calls weren't passed on from one 911 operator to another as shifts changed, so each call was treated as a new incident.

Twice, ambulances were as close as a quarter-mile from Mitchell's home but drivers said deep snow prevented the vehicles from crossing a small bridge over railroad tracks to reach him. Mitchell was told each time he'd have to walk through the snow to the ambulances; in neither case did paramedics walk to get him.

Once, an ambulance made it across the bridge and was at the opposite end of the block on the narrow street where the couple lived — a little more than a football field's length. Again, paramedics didn't try to walk.
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Pa. man dies during storm when 911 calls unheeded - Yahoo! News

I know this is a one time thing, but I think this needs some rule to make sure it doesn't happen again. The one where responders have to go to the door sounds good to me.
 
I don't know what to say about this without more information. I think at very least, the calls should have not been treated like new calls.

However, if the medical personnel cannot get through, they cannot get through. :shrug: Earlier, the problem was not considered life threatening. So should they risk their lives to get to someone who waited a week to call for help? The article said the man had been in pain all week after having been hospitalized for pancreatis for 9 days last month. He knew a wicked storm was coming. Didn't he think it wise to get it checked out before the Heavens opened up and started dumping tons of snow? I know I would have.

The headline is misleading. The calls were not unheeded. The ambulance drivers could not get through.

It's sad, and perhaps 911 did some things wrong. But it's not entirely their fault.
 
StandUpChuck said:
I don't know what to say about this without more information. I think at very least, the calls should have not been treated like new calls.

However, if the medical personnel cannot get through, they cannot get through. :shrug: Earlier, the problem was not considered life threatening. So should they risk their lives to get to someone who waited a week to call for help? The article said the man had been in pain all week after having been hospitalized for pancreatis for 9 days last month. He knew a wicked storm was coming. Didn't he think it wise to get it checked out before the Heavens opened up and started dumping tons of snow? I know I would have.

The headline is misleading. The calls were not unheeded. The ambulance drivers could not get through.

It's sad, and perhaps 911 did some things wrong. But it's not entirely their fault.
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I agree with you that this man should have had his stomach checked out beforehand, but you can't completely take the blame off the responders. They were within a football field's length of the guy's house, when he was a medium priority, they should have walked out, and at least checked up on him.
 
repeter said:
I agree with you that this man should have had his stomach checked out beforehand, but you can't completely take the blame off the responders. They were within a football field's length of the guy's house, when he was a medium priority, they should have walked out, and at least checked up on him.
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Their call. Medics are not obligated to risk their own lives to assist others. If we were, I'd have been getting paid a ****load more than minimum wage when I drove an ambulance.

Secondly, they may not have been *allowed* to per their dispatch. If they're going to do something like that, they have to notify and get permission from their dispatch.

Hell, if we were on a call for a domestic dispute, knife wound, or gunshot wound, we weren't even allowed to get out of the ambulance until the cops cleared the scene.
 
repeter said:
A man in Pittsburgh died when EMT's were unable to reach his apartment. Granted that it was snowing like hell, the responder's didn't even get out of their ambulance to carry the guy out of his apartment. Several calls were made, 3 ambulances dispatched, but they never reached the guy.



Pa. man dies during storm when 911 calls unheeded - Yahoo! News

I know this is a one time thing, but I think this needs some rule to make sure it doesn't happen again. The one where responders have to go to the door sounds good to me.
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Government agents are under no legal obligation to assist anyone for any reason. That's why I always shake my head at people who depend upon the police to protect them and save them from criminals.
 
Nearly 30 hours later — and 10 calls from the couple to 911
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Hour 2, and the second call, my truck becomes a makeshift ambulance and we get ourselves to the hospital....


Waiting 30 hours around to die? ghosts of NOLO come to mind..
 
rivrrat said:
Or, you know, you walk to the ambulance.
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Or put the sick mofo on the kids flexible flier and drag his ass to the hospital... :shock:


I'd love to see the address of this 911 call so I could google map it.
 
• Twice, ambulances were as close as a quarter-mile from Mitchell's home but drivers said deep snow prevented the vehicles from crossing a small bridge over railroad tracks to reach him. Mitchell was told each time he'd have to walk through the snow to the ambulances; in neither case did paramedics walk to get him.
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"... You get out of that damn truck and you walk to the residence," Huss said. "That's what needed to happen. We could have carried him out."
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:ssst:


So the mans life was as as valuable as 10 feet. :roll:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
:ssst:


So the mans life was as as valuable as 10 feet. :roll:
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More like over 100 yards. Through 2ft of snow and ice. If it would have been so easy for them to walk it, then surely he or his girlfriend could have. Apparently, it wasn't so easy.

Still their call. He wasn't listed as life threatening emergency anyway.
 
rivrrat said:
More like over 100 yards. Through 2ft of snow and ice. If it would have been so easy for them to walk it, then surely he or his girlfriend could have. Apparently, it wasn't so easy.

Still their call. He wasn't listed as life threatening emergency anyway.
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pancreatitus? Bet he was mowing on chicken wings 30 hrs earlier when the lard hit the pancreus...


30 hrs, I'd make other arrangments 28hrs earlier.
 
Goyboy said:
Egads! When you call for medical help, the help is supposed to go to you, not the other way around. If it was safe for the man to walk to the ambulance, then it was safe for the paramedics to walk to the man's house.
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yes, but if THEY don't, your dead.... 30 hrs? come now... figure another way.
 
Goyboy said:
Egads! When you call for medical help, the help is supposed to go to you, not the other way around. If it was safe for the man to walk to the ambulance, then it was safe for the paramedics to walk to the man's house.
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Not necessarily. We couldn't always get right to a caller's place or maybe even get a gurney to them. There were cases where the caller HAD to walk to the ambulance or at least to where we could get the gurney. Have you ever tried to wheel a gurney through 2ft of snow and ice in the middle of a storm that's still putting down snow and ice and wind? Wheeling a gurney through that is damn near impossible, carrying it would have been treacherous too, and so would have carrying HIM. You want to be someone carried on a heavy gurney while the two people carrying you are slipping and sliding all over the place because they can't wheel the gurney? Unable to see where they're putting their feet? It could have been a treacherous situation for the medics and the patient. The liability on the part of the medics AND the ambulance service may have been too much to risk.

I don't know what the exact conditions were, I wasn't there. But I know from experience that there are cases where the patient must come to you. Especially if they're not an emergency case. Under no conditions were we to risk harm to ourselves to help someone. It was strictly forbidden. We would lose our jobs, for one thing. And if we got harmed, no workers comp because we broke the rules.
 
rivrrat said:
Not necessarily. We couldn't always get right to a caller's place or maybe even get a gurney to them. There were cases where the caller HAD to walk to the ambulance or at least to where we could get the gurney. Have you ever tried to wheel a gurney through 2ft of snow and ice in the middle of a storm that's still putting down snow and ice and wind? Wheeling a gurney through that is damn near impossible, carrying it would have been treacherous too, and so would have carrying HIM. You want to be someone carried on a heavy gurney while the two people carrying you are slipping and sliding all over the place because they can't wheel the gurney? Unable to see where they're putting their feet? It could have been a treacherous situation for the medics and the patient. The liability on the part of the medics AND the ambulance service may have been too much to risk.

I don't know what the exact conditions were, I wasn't there. But I know from experience that there are cases where the patient must come to you. Especially if they're not an emergency case. Under no conditions were we to risk harm to ourselves to help someone. It was strictly forbidden. We would lose our jobs, for one thing. And if we got harmed, no workers comp because we broke the rules.
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mortals do not realize this. ;)
 
rivrrat said:
Not necessarily. We couldn't always get right to a caller's place or maybe even get a gurney to them. There were cases where the caller HAD to walk to the ambulance or at least to where we could get the gurney. Have you ever tried to wheel a gurney through 2ft of snow and ice in the middle of a storm that's still putting down snow and ice and wind? Wheeling a gurney through that is damn near impossible, carrying it would have been treacherous too, and so would have carrying HIM. You want to be someone carried on a heavy gurney while the two people carrying you are slipping and sliding all over the place because they can't wheel the gurney? Unable to see where they're putting their feet? It could have been a treacherous situation for the medics and the patient. The liability on the part of the medics AND the ambulance service may have been too much to risk.

I don't know what the exact conditions were, I wasn't there. But I know from experience that there are cases where the patient must come to you. Especially if they're not an emergency case. Under no conditions were we to risk harm to ourselves to help someone. It was strictly forbidden. We would lose our jobs, for one thing. And if we got harmed, no workers comp because we broke the rules.
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Why do they have to use a gurney? What about the fireman's carry, or perhaps a stretcher? I mean, they were too scared to walk through 400 meters of snow? They should have gone, but that doesn't mean they're obligated to...
 
Ethereal said:
Why do they have to use a gurney? What about the fireman's carry, or perhaps a stretcher? I mean, they were too scared to walk through 400 meters of snow? They should have gone, but that doesn't mean they're obligated to...
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stretchers make good sleds. :pimpdaddy:
 
Ethereal said:
Why do they have to use a gurney? What about the fireman's carry, or perhaps a stretcher? I mean, they were too scared to walk through 400 meters of snow? They should have gone, but that doesn't mean they're obligated to...
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Medics are not trained in a fireman's carry. They aren't firemen. Ambulances don't have stretchers, they have gurneys and backboards. Carrying someone on a backboard in those conditions still would have been treacherous and a risk to all involved, most importantly... the patient. What you don't understand is that the risk was not only to themselves, but to the patient as well. Medical professionals are not covered by any good Samaritan laws, even off duty. If they had attempted to carry him and dropped him, they would have lost their jobs and likely have been sued, not to mention the possible injury or death of the patient as a result of their risky attempt.

No, they should not have necessarily gone. However, had it been me, I probably would have walked up and escorted the patient by foot to the ambulance if it was a life threatening situation. I can't say what I would have done really though, since I wasn't there. But I can understand situations and reasons why they wouldn't have gone.
 
rivrrat said:
Medics are not trained in a fireman's carry. They aren't firemen.
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You need training to pick someone up and put them on your shoulder?

Ambulances don't have stretchers, they have gurneys and backboards. Carrying someone on a backboard in those conditions still would have been treacherous and a risk to all involved, most importantly... the patient.
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That's kind of a moot point when the patient dies.

What you don't understand is that the risk was not only to themselves, but to the patient as well. Medical professionals are not covered by any good Samaritan laws, even off duty. If they had attempted to carry him and dropped him, they would have lost their jobs and likely have been sued, not to mention the possible injury or death of the patient as a result of their risky attempt.
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That's fair enough, I suppose. If that's the case, the laws should be changed. I'm not sure that I would have sat in the ambulance and waited for him to die, though. That's just the kind of guy I am...

No, they should not have necessarily gone. However, had it been me, I probably would have walked up and escorted the patient by foot to the ambulance if it was a life threatening situation. I can't say what I would have done really though, since I wasn't there. But I can understand situations and reasons why they wouldn't have gone.
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I'm sure you would have tried to do something, being a non-wimp and all...;)

I mean, they couldn't just walk 400 meters to the guy's house and assess the situation? It's not like they were in Antarctica or something...
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
yes, but if THEY don't, your dead.... 30 hrs? come now... figure another way.
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There is a better way. To those who have become dependent on the government, a bit of advise - No one is helped more than by one's self. Learn it. Live it.
 
Ethereal said:
You need training to pick someone up and put them on your shoulder?



That's kind of a moot point when the patient dies.



That's fair enough, I suppose. If that's the case, the laws should be changed. I'm not sure that I would have sat in the ambulance and waited for him to die, though. That's just the kind of guy I am...



I'm sure you would have tried to do something, being a non-wimp and all...;)

I mean, they couldn't just walk 400 meters to the guy's house and assess the situation? It's not like they were in Antarctica or something...
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But it's not JUST them that needs to be taken into consideration. There are many factors. Risk to themselves, risk of losing their jobs, risk of being sued, risk to the patient. And remember, while this guy ultimately did die, the call did not come in as a life threatening situation. If you had someone call, the call was deemed non-life threatening, would you risk injury to yourself, risk your job, and risk further injury to the patient in order to go get them? It's not like it was a cardiac arrest, a bleed out, or a burning building.

As for the fireman's carry... no, one doesn't require training to physically accomplish the task. But if you do something outside of your training, you open yourself up to injury without compensation and a lawsuit.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just telling it like it is. It's not as simple as "they should have gone to the house".
 
I've worked in this community, extensively, and I am not at all surprised that this happened. Pittsburgh is hard to get around in when it snows, it's hilly and has dozens of bridges. There also is a significant and noticeable bias towards poor blacks in neighborhoods like Hazelwood.
 
Only one of his neighbors has a car? And not one of them has a helicopter.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I've worked in this community, extensively, and I am not at all surprised that this happened. Pittsburgh is hard to get around in when it snows, it's hilly and has dozens of bridges. There also is a significant and noticeable bias towards poor blacks in neighborhoods like Hazelwood.
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no bridge between hazlewood and mercy at UPMC.... ;)



That said. 30 hrs? he could have been carried thier or found a way.
 
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