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Thread: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

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    23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirementVIERA The local economic forecast tied to President Barack Obama's proposed NASA budget keeps growing bleaker.

    Revised projections now show that about 23,000 workers at and around Kennedy Space Center will lose their jobs because of the shuttles' retirement and the new proposal to cancel the development of new rockets and spacecraft.

    That sum includes 9,000 "direct" space jobs and -- conservatively speaking -- 14,000 "indirect" jobs at hotels, restaurants, retail stores and others that depend on activity at the space center, said Lisa Rice, Brevard Workforce president.

    The organization's earlier estimate of 7,000 direct jobs reflected just the retirement of the shuttle program. The updated numbers also include the cancellation of Project Constellation and other initiatives as outlined in the president's 2011 budget, Rice said.

    "Our unemployment rate is going to skyrocket," she warned Thursday during a five-hour Brevard County Commission space workshop. Much conversation centered on the future of human space launches from KSC, and attendees heaped criticism on Obama's strategy.

    Mark Nappi is vice president of launch and recovery systems for United Space Alliance, NASA's prime contractor for shuttle operations. As things stand today, he predicted that more than 4,500 of the company's 5,500 Florida workers will lose their jobs. Geographically speaking, Nappi said 4,850 USA workers live in Brevard, including 3,250 in the northern half of the county.

    Commissioners asked what the county can do to recruit commercial launch companies from California, Virginia, Texas and elsewhere.

    "The market will drive where space vehicles are launched from," Nappi said. "And if we believe in Florida that we have the birthright to spaceflight operations, we're going to be the Pittsburgh of the steel industry and the Detroit of the car industry."
    So, the Messiah's message of hope for the future, by actually destroying efforts to build that future, will destroy hope as well.

    But it'll make the Chinese and Russians happy.

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    So, the Messiah's message of hope for the future, by actually destroying efforts to build that future, will destroy hope as well.

    But it'll make the Chinese and Russians happy.
    So the government should be protecting those jobs at the expense of private companies that are expanding space launch capabilities?

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Endeavour first flew in May 1992 on mission STS-49 and is scheduled for decommissioning in 2010 while the other 2 are much older. Endeavour was an upgrade in many ways and should not be sut down.

    The shuttle system is a proven one and new even better models could be built and used for a very long time and in the process would not only save real jobs but create many more.

    Closing down a successful program is foolish at best.

    The B-52 first flew in 1952 and newer upgraded models are still in service.

    You don't abandon a good program if you have a brain in your empty head.

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    So the government should be protecting those jobs at the expense of private companies that are expanding space launch capabilities?
    So the government has this thing, you see, it's called the "Constitution". Maybe you've heard of it, maybe you haven't. Some people have heard of it, and not read it. Many people have read it and don't understand it.

    But there are two relevant duties the Constitution imposes on the federal government.

    One of those is national defense. That's not supposed to be subcontracted out. Maintaining US manned access to space is a national defense priority.

    The other duty the federal government has is the construction of "post roads". Again, developing the road to the future means taking a turn past Canaveral to get to the moon. No moon equals no future.

    The private developers have the resources to shoot a Romin' Candle to the top of the atmosphere, and watch it fall down. Cool, yes. Commericially viable, not. While the kiddies are playing with their bottle rockets the United States is confronted with very serious threats from China and Russia, not to mention other countries subsidizing their space launch infrastructure. The Shuttle's dying, and good riddance to a crappy design. Four of the last five presidents have had no excuse to delay the shuttle's replacement, but they all found excuses.

    So, while the US government dithers, while it wastes $500 billion medicare fraud, and who knows how many billion on education fraud, and god alone knows how much on failed "stimulus" pork, the rest of the world is moving forward to secure the next and final high ground. Which will leave the US at a military and economic disadvantage.

    The fact you need to face is that rich boys building toys simply do not have the resources to establish a free market presence in orbit, let alone the moon, which must be our national goal.

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Good. Free up that money for more worthwhile and necessary ventures.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Good. Free up that money for more worthwhile and necessary ventures.
    And what is more worthwile and necessary than national defense?

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    And what is more worthwile and necessary than national defense?
    First off, that's a terrible argument. National defense isn't an inherent good. At some point you have more defense than you need and in starts to cut into things that people really want unnecessarily.

    Secondly, what does the shuttle program have to do with national defense?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    So, the Messiah's message of hope for the future, by actually destroying efforts to build that future, will destroy hope as well.

    But it'll make the Chinese and Russians happy.
    So, you support socialized Space Exportation.

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    So the government has this thing, you see, it's called the "Constitution". Maybe you've heard of it, maybe you haven't. Some people have heard of it, and not read it. Many people have read it and don't understand it.

    But there are two relevant duties the Constitution imposes on the federal government.

    One of those is national defense. That's not supposed to be subcontracted out. Maintaining US manned access to space is a national defense priority.

    The other duty the federal government has is the construction of "post roads". Again, developing the road to the future means taking a turn past Canaveral to get to the moon. No moon equals no future.

    The private developers have the resources to shoot a Romin' Candle to the top of the atmosphere, and watch it fall down. Cool, yes. Commericially viable, not. While the kiddies are playing with their bottle rockets the United States is confronted with very serious threats from China and Russia, not to mention other countries subsidizing their space launch infrastructure. The Shuttle's dying, and good riddance to a crappy design. Four of the last five presidents have had no excuse to delay the shuttle's replacement, but they all found excuses.

    So, while the US government dithers, while it wastes $500 billion medicare fraud, and who knows how many billion on education fraud, and god alone knows how much on failed "stimulus" pork, the rest of the world is moving forward to secure the next and final high ground. Which will leave the US at a military and economic disadvantage.

    The fact you need to face is that rich boys building toys simply do not have the resources to establish a free market presence in orbit, let alone the moon, which must be our national goal.
    The US is slowly building private commercial space launching companies. United Launch Alliance for instance can not be expected to be able to compete with a government operated program

    Boeing and Lockheed are not rich boys building toy, but among the biggest defense contractors

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The US is slowly building private commercial space launching companies. United Launch Alliance for instance can not be expected to be able to compete with a government operated program

    Boeing and Lockheed are not rich boys building toy, but among the biggest defense contractors
    So when do you expect ULA to be able to put 150,000 lbs into orbit?


    You are aware that when "NASA" or "the government" decides to build a rocket or a black helicopter, what they really do is ask Boing or Lockheed or Northrop or some other relevant contractor to do the engineering and testing and developing, right? So you can't cbm about "private industry" and then tell us that if the government "interferes" that Boing is going to be losing out. Boing et al bid on all those big ticket "government" contracts, it's where most of their money is.

    If the government isn't building Ares and the Constellation or something similar, Boing et al aren't going to be working those projects. You have a serious case of cognitive dissonance going on here.

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