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Thread: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

  1. #51
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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    So the people who build the F22, F35, who also operate space launches are too stupid to build and launch rockets (despite the fact they already do)

    They dont have the budget because the government previously subsidied space launches. Now with the government out of the way, prices will rise in order to meet the true costs of putting objects into space.

    So I think the person who fails here is you
    They do it with the government's money! If they didn't have that their would be nothing.
    No smart people thinking about space exploration no money for rockets hell there might not have even been a LMT.

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Man, you watch way too much science fiction on TV.....
    Nice insult. It really shows how wrong I am...

    Is it your contention that humans will never weaponize and colonize space?

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Nice insult. It really shows how wrong I am...

    Is it your contention that humans will never weaponize and colonize space?
    Never? that is an absolute. I prefer expressions like "when pigs fly" into a "hell that has frozen over".

    The technology to make a space ship habitable long term for humans has not been invented yet. Just living on the moon will require considerable shielding to keep out the radiation. All I have seen so far about it has us living on the surface, and it should be obvious that we should go way underground.
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Space exploration can be done with unmanned probes.
    True. It was a robot that unfurled the jammed solar array on Skylab.

    No, wait, it was an astronaut.

    Machines have their place in the exploration and explotation of the universe.

    So do men.

    And man's place isn't inside an air conditioned hut in Huston, but trodding the soil of alien planets. Because pre-planning can never cover every contingency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyboy View Post
    The only defense or commercial interests are related to satellites, which can be done by unmanned rockets.
    Until the moon is exploited.

    Then your argument falters.

    Of course, with known water deposits on the moon, there are known commericial values on the moon. And men go where the money is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyboy View Post
    The ideas of a manned site on the moon, and/or a manned trip to mars (most likely TO, and not back again), are stupidly expensive.
    Really?

    I could design a means of exploiting commercially valuable deposits on the moon for les than a hundred gigabucks. It's no where near as difficult as some want you to think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyboy View Post
    Let China have it....let them deplete their coffers. Their people are already accustomed to having little to nothing.
    Right. Let China exploit the water on the Moon to become the masters of the solar system's resources, let the United States wallow in failed socialist policies.

    Great plan for you children and grand children you have there.

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Just because something is unprofitable doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.
    In 1940 the US Army was training recruits using wooden rifles, because Congress didn't think it was worth the expense of training with live ammo.

    That worked out well, didn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It's kind of hard to conduct basic research without humans. It's also hard to repair and maintain complex instruments without them.
    You and I can say "repairs and maintenance to the Hubble Space Telescope". The Luddites hear "robotrobotrobotrobotrobotrobotrobotrobot". They want to pretend Man's presence isn't essential to space exploitation.

    robotMan must be apart of the exploration process. Machines cannot fill that void. Personally, I think we should give space 100% and that includes humans. If we could cut entitlement spending, we'd have more than enough to fund continued space exploration.[/QUOTE]

    We have enough to fund space exploration. What needs to happen is the Congress has to stop monkeying with programs once they initiate them. The International Space Station is almost two decades late because of Congressional interference, and a coherent and consistent policy must be formulated and adhered to.

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Never? that is an absolute. I prefer expressions like "when pigs fly" into a "hell that has frozen over".

    The technology to make a space ship habitable long term for humans has not been invented yet.
    We're discussing a planetary colony on the moon, not an arkship.

    Different requirements, more resources.

    A lunar colony is a submarine with a greenhouse and no propeller.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Just living on the moon will require considerable shielding to keep out the radiation.
    That shielding has already been invented.

    I think God calls it "dirt".


    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    All I have seen so far about it has us living on the surface, and it should be obvious that we should go way underground.
    You need to see more. The obvious solution to lunar habitation problems is under ground. Which is something every science fiction author has mentioned in the last 80 years.

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Never? that is an absolute. I prefer expressions like "when pigs fly" into a "hell that has frozen over".
    So, you answer is, "Yes, humans will eventually weaponize and colonize space."

    The technology to make a space ship habitable long term for humans has not been invented yet.


    Well, duh, Utah! Of course it hasn't been invented yet. That's the whole point of conducting research.

    Just living on the moon will require considerable shielding to keep out the radiation. All I have seen so far about it has us living on the surface, and it should be obvious that we should go way underground.
    Either way, we should set lofty goals and attempt to achieve them in a shorter time frame than other countries. This is called "exceptionalism".

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Just because something is unprofitable doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.
    Actually, it does.

    It's kind of hard to conduct basic research without humans. It's also hard to repair and maintain complex instruments without them. Man must be apart of the exploration process. Machines cannot fill that void. Personally, I think we should give space 100% and that includes humans. If we could cut entitlement spending, we'd have more than enough to fund continued space exploration.
    Why can't machines? That's not a self-evident claim.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post

    Originally Posted by Goyboy
    The only defense or commercial interests are related to satellites, which can be done by unmanned rockets.
    Until the moon is exploited.

    Then your argument falters.

    Of course, with known water deposits on the moon, there are known commericial values on the moon. And men go where the money is.

    Originally Posted by Goyboy
    The ideas of a manned site on the moon, and/or a manned trip to mars (most likely TO, and not back again), are stupidly expensive.
    Really?

    I could design a means of exploiting commercially valuable deposits on the moon for les than a hundred gigabucks. It's no where near as difficult as some want you to think.

    Originally Posted by Goyboy
    Let China have it....let them deplete their coffers. Their people are already accustomed to having little to nothing.
    Right. Let China exploit the water on the Moon to become the masters of the solar system's resources, let the United States wallow in failed socialist policies.

    Great plan for you children and grand children you have there.
    Scarecrow Akhbar, could you please attribute quotes to the correct people? I am not the person who said the things that you quoted.
    The height of wisdom is to say, "I do not know." -Socrates

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    Re: 23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Actually, it does.
    Of course. You say so, so it must be true. How profitable is the military, by the way?

    Why can't machines? That's not a self-evident claim.
    As far as I know, machines are incapable of abstract reasoning, which means they are incapable of operating outside certain parameters, e.g., conducting research and repairing delicate machinery in space.

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