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Thread: Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections

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    Re: Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I don't think that's actually the case. The most recent polling data on the patriot act is pretty old (Jan. 06), but even then, the public thought it was a good thing by a 53-30 margin. I would be surprised to find that a majority opposed it now.
    I would be interested to see if the margin shrank any in the past few years. Not that I think it will change anything, but it would be nice to know if the general public either supports or rejects the Patriot Act.

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    Re: Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections

    Thank God they had thee smarts to do this..........There is no doubt that the PA has saved our ass from another attack on more then one occasion......
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Thank God they had thee smarts to do this..........There is no doubt that the PA has saved our ass from another attack on more then one occasion......
    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections | Reuters



    Now that the Dems have reauthorized the PATRIOT Act in all its library-searchin', wiretap-gettin', lone wolf-trackin' glory, maybe that can be an end to the unnecessary partisanship we saw over this issue during the past 9 years. I recognize that there are many people (on both sides) who oppose the PATRIOT Act and various provisions for all sorts of principled reasons, and I don't mean to imply that I think there's anything wrong with that. What I did not approve of were those who opposed the bill simply to gain a partisan advantage. Now that both sides have acknowledged that this is necessary, maybe we can see a ratcheting down of tensions over issues like this.
    Almost sounds strikingly similar to high school peer pressure.
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    Re: Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

    - Benjamin Franklin
    Which liberties that the patriot act infringes upon are essential liberties? I'll wait.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections

    Oh boy oh boy, my favorite topic....

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

    - Benjamin Franklin
    First off one could argue how much ESSENTIAL liberty one is actually giving up through the Patriot Act, especially more than 90% of the said act. Even some of the more demonized parts of the act that still remain are not clear cut violations of constitutional rights as much as it is loosening the requirements needed to maintain reasonable.

    Furthermore, there is a definitive argument to make by "Temporary Safety". IE no one is saying "Hey, we're giving up the right to search and seizure forever in exchange for protecting you this one time". People like to ignore the "temporary" line of the second part because it doesn't help them.

    Ditto as well for a "little". The Patriot Act completely revamps our intelligence gathering laws and bringing it out of the stone age and into the digital age where things like Chat Rooms, Forums, Instant Messaging, Cell Phones, and other things aren't simply seeds within the imagination of science fiction writers like William Gibson. The amount our laws were stretched, contorted , and manipulated to deal with technology prior to the Patriot Act was riddled with issues.

    But I give you props for at least giving the correct quote. Most won't even try that.

    In regards to this, excellent. I'm glad to see that when push comes to shove things like this that are needed stay in play. Without a doubt this bill needs to remain in place and is a vital part in intelligence gathering from the smallest of local domestic issues to national security impacting foreign.

    The method in which the Patriot Act has been tempered, reforged, and cleaned is the method that needs to continue. Let the sunsets for the more extreme measures that were reasonable in the wake of 9/11 but are less worth while on the "liberty/security" scale expire. Let the ACLU succeed in the cases its correct on in regards to any particular portions of it that are unconstitutional and roll them back. Have senators put forge legislation to remove particular provisions if they feel they are wrong. All this is good.

    But do not completely and utterly a bill that early on in its existence even staunch democrat Russ Fiengold has stated was 90% a sound and needed bill. On top of that, this statement came out long before a number of the provisions and measures have sunset or been struck down, likely meaning that % is much higher.

    The politics behind this bill have made is so that if it was stricken down and had to be repassed it'd have a hard time, not because it wasn't needed but because of the specter of "patriot". Not to mention it would be a wasteful use of time that would leave our intelligence laws in this country to once again be woefully ancient during the period between it being struck down and the needed portions were placed back into the law.

    Reauthorize it, keep it on the books, and continue the various avenues that have been working successfully at removing the portions of it that are either outright unconstitutional, questionable, or are no longer needed based on the distance we are from the most severe of situations.

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    Re: Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I don't think so. I think it would be more accurate to say that politicians on both sides may have acknowledged it's necessity, but I'm willing to bet that voters on both sides still want it repealed. The tension won't ratchet down at all when it comes to the Patriot Act, at least not for voters opposed to it.
    Funny I do not think that this is a big issue for the media right now. I am against giving up liberties because of some scare tactics.

    Just shows that Obama will do anything to get re-elected. He is a constitutional lawyer!

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    Re: Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Funny I do not think that this is a big issue for the media right now. I am against giving up liberties because of some scare tactics.

    Just shows that Obama will do anything to get re-elected. He is a constitutional lawyer!
    Bush/Cheney did it to get re-elected too.

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    Re: Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Bush/Cheney did it to get re-elected too.
    For being such a dumb resident, Bush sure managed to OWN congress, didnt he? Man...when you think of how he managed to write legislation, force congress to pass it, force congress to give up its legislative responsibilities, force...become king...dude had to have SOMETHING going on upstairs...

    The reality is that Bush like Obama have the executive responsibility. CONGRESS passed the Patriot Act. Just like CONGRESS voted OVERWHELMINGLY to extend it. Both parties.
    Now...I know this may sound presumptuous...but Im guessing it is likely that congress probably has access to our nations intel reports. Im also guessing there are things that go on every day that they KNOW about that causes them to see the Patriot Act as a valuable weapon in the fight against our domestic enemies.

    OR...

    They are just corrupt and we all know better than all of them.

    OK...maybe thats an AND...not an OR...I dont know...

    Lets just make sure we keep the scorecard very clear...for the last 6 years or so democrats have been hammering away at the Evil Bush about the Patriot Act. Now...the DEMOCRATS...in control of house, senate and presidency...Rahm it through and extend it. Liars and hypocrites...all of them.

    Of course...these are the same people that for the 8 years of the Clinton administration spoke regularly about Hussein and his known WMDs...only to weaken America in the following administration calling Bush a liar.

    And dont think I dont get that the Republicans are just as bad. They do the same things. Its a universal ploy. We the people SHOULD deserve better, but as long as we keep sending the same clowns back to congress...we DONT deserve better and wont get better.

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    Re: Congress extends Patriot Act, no new protections

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    For being such a dumb resident, Bush sure managed to OWN congress, didnt he? Man...when you think of how he managed to write legislation, force congress to pass it, force congress to give up its legislative responsibilities, force...become king...dude had to have SOMETHING going on upstairs...

    The reality is that Bush like Obama have the executive responsibility. CONGRESS passed the Patriot Act. Just like CONGRESS voted OVERWHELMINGLY to extend it. Both parties.
    Now...I know this may sound presumptuous...but Im guessing it is likely that congress probably has access to our nations intel reports. Im also guessing there are things that go on every day that they KNOW about that causes them to see the Patriot Act as a valuable weapon in the fight against our domestic enemies.

    OR...

    They are just corrupt and we all know better than all of them.

    OK...maybe thats an AND...not an OR...I dont know...

    Lets just make sure we keep the scorecard very clear...for the last 6 years or so democrats have been hammering away at the Evil Bush about the Patriot Act. Now...the DEMOCRATS...in control of house, senate and presidency...Rahm it through and extend it. Liars and hypocrites...all of them.

    Of course...these are the same people that for the 8 years of the Clinton administration spoke regularly about Hussein and his known WMDs...only to weaken America in the following administration calling Bush a liar.

    And dont think I dont get that the Republicans are just as bad. They do the same things. Its a universal ploy. We the people SHOULD deserve better, but as long as we keep sending the same clowns back to congress...we DONT deserve better and wont get better.
    That's what I've been saying too.

    But remember that while the President has executive responsibility, and while Congress writes legislation, it is the President who signs legislation into law. And if Obama is going to get **** for allowing the Patriot Act to be extended, we need to remember that Bush deserves **** for passing the legislation in the first place.

    As I've said, politicians on both sides love the Patriot Act but the people on both sides fear it.

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