Page 7 of 30 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 292

Thread: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outraged

  1. #61
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,900

    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Yeah, true patriotism can only come from killing another with the purpose of promoting one's national interests.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  2. #62
    Sage
    First Thought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    DFW, Texas
    Last Seen
    12-01-10 @ 03:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,218

    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Yeah, true patriotism can only come from killing another with the purpose of promoting one's national interests.
    There are certainly people who believe that. That's the issue with patriotism: No one can accurately define it. Some people think it means doing whatever the government asks of you without questioning. Others, like myself, think that questioning the government is the most patriotic thing you can do.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  3. #63
    Sage
    mpg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Milford, CT
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,770

    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Children shouldn't be pledging allegiance to their country. That's an adult decision.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  4. #64
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    48,014

    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    I know what the pledge means. However, his explanation only underlines the fact that refusing to say the pledge is just as patriotic as saying it, if we truly do stand for freedom and independence.
    Absolute hogwash.

    Is there reasons why someone can choose to not say the pledge that make that act patriot. Simply saying "those that don't say it are Just as patriotic" is absolute bull****.

    Patriotic is the embodying in action of patriotism. Patriotism is a the devoted love, support, and defense of ones country or national loyalty.

    If you don't say the pledge because you think the United States ****ing sucks and is a corrupt force of evil, but your parents happen to live here or your job happens to be here so you're stuck here, then you're not being patriotic by not saying it. You could, though I'd disagree, argue that you're at least being in line with the Founders and true to some of their beliefs...but one could not say you're being patriotic.

    If you don't say it because you're a snot nosed 13 year old that finds out he doesn't have to say it and you decide not to say it because you think it makes you look like a rebel, you're not patriotic for not doing it. You're not forgoing saying it because of some deep seeded respect for our right to free expression or protest and to show your point that you love this country giving you the ability to do it. You're not saying it because you're a snot nosed kid that thinks he's acting like a bad ass. That is not patriotic. (Which frankly, growing up, this was the most common reason I noted anyone ever not saying it)

    If you don't say it because you think its mindless words that only deluded sheeple say and that you are so much smarter than everyone else and don't need to say that, that is not patriotic. You're not forgoing saying it out of some dedication and love for the ideals of this country, you're not doing it because you think you're so ****ing smart that your not going to lower yourself into taking part in a "mindless tradition".

    If you don't say it because your religion says to put nothing above your god and so you feel it violates your religion, you're still not forgoing it because of "love, devotion, or defense" of your country, so its not patriotic.

    Are those necessarily unpatriotic or anti-american? For the most part not really. One could argue it for some, particularly the first example, but for the most part it'd be no, especially with the last one. If anything they are apatriotic, they were done for reasons neither rooted in patriotism nor its opposite. They are rooted in entirely different reasons that has nothing to do with the country...be it their religion, social presentation, or intellectualism.

    CAN not saying the pledge be JUST as patriotic? Absolutely! If a kid decides to prove a point to a civics teacher he disagrees with that freedom of speech is the most important aspect of our country, and as such he's not going to say it as an example of that, then yes, he's exhibiting patriotism by showing his love through this country through a political protest specifically to show his love for the country.

    If a person decides they are not going to say it at the beginning of an event where they believe issues or law is going to be pushed or brought up that are against what they think is in line with this countries principles and they're not saying it out of protest to denote that they think the use of it is simply to hide the fact they're pushing unamerican ideals, sure, that could be JUST as patriotic.

    But just saying, flat out, unequiviocally, its JUST as patriotic not to say it as to say it is riduclous.

    Similarly...

    One can actually say the pledge and not be patroitic when they're doing it. If they're saying it just because they're told and none of the words inspire, represent, or mean anything to them then yeah, its empty words that are just being stated, not a patriotic display. If a person is saying it because they have to and they actually hate America, its not patriotic.

    Simply disagreeing with the government does not in and of itself make you patriotic. I absolutely hate this notion and its just frankly ignorant. Are the people who orchastrated 9/11 "patriotic"? I mean, they disagreed with America and took action about it....I mean, I guess someone could argue the founders would agree with that...they must be patriotic!

    If someone doesn't vote because they're a lazy **** who won't get off the couch are they JUST as patriotic as someone that votes because they're choosing (kind of) to excerise free speech by not participating in an antiquated ritural such as voting?

    If someone says "Screw the President. He f's pigs. I hate him" or "I hate this country, its the worst place in the world, it is pure evil" are they magically JUST as Patriotic as someone that goes "I disagree with our President, but I am thankful for the ability to say such and I respect the office" or "I love this country and the freedoms its affords us" because, hey, they were excersing free speech so that automatically makes them patriotic.

    If no, then why does exercising protesting...regardless of your reason, intent, or what you're protesting...automatically make you JUST as patriotic as those that don't?

  5. #65
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Children shouldn't be pledging allegiance to their country. That's an adult decision.
    Children should because children are citizens.

    They need to be taught that having the freedom to refuse to say the pledge is better than having explosives strapped to them in the name of Alah.



    The very fact that this student has the protected right not to say the pledge if she doesn't want to is by itself reason enough for her to do it.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-25-10 at 02:06 PM.

  6. #66
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    48,014

    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    They are words. Nothing more. Actions show patriotism.
    We should just ignore the constitution too. I mean, its just words that are written on paper. Who gives a **** about words. They're meaningless.

  7. #67
    Sage
    First Thought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    DFW, Texas
    Last Seen
    12-01-10 @ 03:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,218

    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    We should just ignore the constitution too. I mean, its just words that are written on paper. Who gives a **** about words. They're meaningless.
    They are. They're just dead symbols. It's what we do with those words that has meaning.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  8. #68
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    48,014

    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Right...

    And stating those words (of the pledge) as you go through school creates a shared experience amongst all citizens and a common sense of patriotism and respect for the country that you live and the freedoms and principles, such as liberty and justice for all, of which it embodies.

    CAN those words be meaningless when said?

    Sure

    The constitution can be meaningless words as well.

    Just because it CAN be doesn't mean they should be used as such.

  9. #69
    Sage
    First Thought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    DFW, Texas
    Last Seen
    12-01-10 @ 03:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,218

    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Right...

    And stating those words (of the pledge) as you go through school creates a shared experience amongst all citizens and a common sense of patriotism and respect for the country that you live and the freedoms and principles, such as liberty and justice for all, of which it embodies.

    CAN those words be meaningless when said?

    Sure

    The constitution can be meaningless words as well.

    Just because it CAN be doesn't mean they should be used as such.
    It certainly appears that you have your opinion and I have mine.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  10. #70
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    48,014

    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Here's my question to a bunch of people in here....

    Do you or had you sung your schools or a pro-sports fight song or chant?

    Do you or had you wore your schools or sports teams colors?

    Have you ever joined a club or organization that had a hand shake, a specific opening or closing of a meeting tradition, or something of the sort?

    If you were religious did you teach your kids any prayers or political actions that you ahd them do (Catholics, did you teach your kids to cross themselves). Or did you discourage your kids from following religion?

    Do you celebrate holidays, meaningless traditions that are antiquated, that don't have any religious value to you?

    Do you stand and remove your hat during the national anthem, or sing along with it?

Page 7 of 30 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •