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Thread: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outraged

  1. #261
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I never looked at it that way..I guess because I kind of had a clue what it was about and why we were doing it.......I can understand a little bit the fuss over "Under God" because some people don't believe in God but I guess I just fon't understand what the problem is to stand and say the pledge...I guess it was just a different era.........
    I was raised under similar circumstances. I got no beef with the pledge, as I stated earlier. Eventually, after the ritual of pledging day in and day out at school, I came to understand what it was about. I'm thinking around the 6th grade or so.

    I'm from the cold war era. We were taught to respect the flag. Never let it touch the ground. During fire drills, when we marched single file outside, I was the last guy in line and I took the little cloth flag outside with us because I was always the tallest in class and I could reach it. Imagine. leaving hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of books, audio visual equipment, furnature, behind to burn in a fire but NEVER leave the 1.98 cent flag behind.

    Yeah, that was our generation for sure. I don't suppose we turned out too bad. We respected our teachers. The occassional rift was settled behind the gym with fisticuffs. Most of us matured to become good citizens and responsible adults. Go figure.

    But I don't think a small child has a clue what they are doing when they ritualistically site the pledge. I can't see any other purpose in having them do so except for indoctrination.

    Same way I can't understand how some christian based religions can baptise their infants. The Holy Bible is very clear on this. That's like wearing a wedding ring before you get married, but I digress. That's harmless too, I suppose.

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  2. #262
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I can't see any other purpose in having them do so except for indoctrination.
    That's exactly the reason.

    If parents want to indoctrinate their own children, that is their choice. When the governemnt mandates or other people choose to use public funds for the purposes of indoctrination, I am leery of it.

    That's why oppose the pledge being said in schools. It should be said at home with the parents if the parents so choose, but there's no excuse for the government trying to force servitude or allegiance on anyone by having it mandated in the classroom, even if the option to refrain exists, because children don't know better and will follow along blindly without question.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 03-01-10 at 04:51 PM.
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  3. #263
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    That's exactly the reason.

    If parents want to indoctrinate their own children, that is their choice. When the governemnt mandates or other people choose to use public funds for the purposes of indoctrination, I am leery of it.

    That's why oppose the pledge being said in schools. It should be said at home with the parents if the parents so choose, but there's no excuse for the government trying to force servitude or allegiance on anyone by having it mandated in the classroom, even if the option to refrain exists, because children don't know better and will follow along blindly without question.
    I can totally understand your reasoning and cannot present anything valid to dispute it.

    That being said, I am reminded each day how archaic we were raised compared to today's ideals. Dress codes. Corporal punishment. I was brought up in the days of "Yes sir. No ma'am. Please." Random acts of kindness and respectful manners.

    Maybe my generation was a bit old-fashioned that way. That's true. But I will take that over the way today's generations are being conducted, any day.

    All this new age "reasoning" sounds all well and good. But when I look at the finished product (today's young adults), compared to the finished products from my day and age, I have to wonder.

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  4. #264
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I can totally understand your reasoning and cannot present anything valid to dispute it.

    That being said, I am reminded each day how archaic we were raised compared to today's ideals. Dress codes. Corporal punishment. I was brought up in the days of "Yes sir. No ma'am. Please." Random acts of kindness and respectful manners.

    Maybe my generation was a bit old-fashioned that way. That's true. But I will take that over the way today's generations are being conducted, any day.

    All this new age "reasoning" sounds all well and good. But when I look at the finished product (today's young adults), compared to the finished products from my day and age, I have to wonder.
    Every generation says that as they get older. It smacks of an inability to see the flaws inherent within their own generation. Some of the rudest, meanest posters on this site are of that generation.

    I look at many of the people 30 years older than me and I see people who are pretty much identical to those of my generation and those of the younger generation.

    There's variance within the populations of all generations.

    But one thing is assured. As they age, all generations will sit upon a high horse and look down their noses at those who are younger than them. It happens with every generation.

    I would be willing to wager that in my everyday life, I'm far more respectful, mannerly and perform more random acts of kindness than the vast majority of people who are of that older generation.

    I don't buy the "better era" line of nostalgic BS because its false idealism wrapped in cynicism.
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  5. #265
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Every generation says that as they get older. It smacks of an inability to see the flaws inherent within their own generation. Some of the rudest, meanest posters on this site are of that generation.

    I look at many of the people 30 years older than me and I see people who are pretty much identical to those of my generation and those of the younger generation.

    There's variance within the populations of all generations.

    But one thing is assured. As they age, all generations will sit upon a high horse and look down their noses at those who are younger than them. It happens with every generation.

    I would be willing to wager that in my everyday life, I'm far more respectful, mannerly and perform more random acts of kindness than the vast majority of people who are of that older generation.

    I don't buy the "better era" line of nostalgic BS because its false idealism wrapped in cynicism.
    You know that's true. The generation before me did it as well. As I am sure your generation will too. In fact, I shudder to think what the the future generation will be like at this pace. In fact, the generation before me were the one's who made me cut my hair, and do all the things that today are considered not important. I really hated them for it at the time. I was quite the rebel back then.

    I have much admiration for many of today's youth. They are much smarter, technically, than we ever were. It is not my intention to look down my nose at anyone.

    Speaking in the most general of terms, I'm just coming from a place where manly disputes were most often settled without knives and guns. A generation that didn't idolize the gangster lifestyle. A generation that would never consider cursing out their teachers or elders. A generation that didn't paint grafitti on people's property. I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.

    My generation is the generation that rebelled against that old school line of thought. Seeing as how that evolved, I often wonder if we did a good thing or not. It ain't pretty.
    Last edited by Captain America; 03-01-10 at 06:33 PM.

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  6. #266
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Speaking in the most general of terms, I'm just coming from a place where manly disputes were most often settled without knives and guns. A generation that didn't idolize the gangster lifestyle. A generation that would never consider cursing out their teachers or elders. A generation that didn't paint grafitti on people's property. I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.
    There are some legitimate gripes here and some exaggerations. The old way of settling a dispute is better than today's way. Where some douches think that manliness stems from a weapon. But there are still many of us who would be considered throwbacks to the old way as well.

    As far as idolizing the gangster lifestyle, I know very few people who do that. The one's I grew up with that did usually got their asses kicked regularly for it.

    I cuss like a mother ****er, but that's as much a part of being raised by bog-Irish parents as it is being a part of my generation. Most of my friends that are in my generation think I cuss too much, actually. And I've never painted graffiti on anyone's property, and I know very few people that did.

    The point I was making is that the issues may be slightly different in how they are manifested, but they are essentially the same in their base form. And they are usually done by the minority within the group, not the majority.

    But there are many of us in this generation who can and do surprise even the most cynical of the old-timers every day.

    I hang out with my mom's 84-year-old uncle about once a month. We go to the pub and have a few drinks together. He was drafted into the Army during the Korean War shortly after he came to the US from Ireland. What I wrote before stems largely from the conversations I have with him, and are practically verbatim from his own comments.

    When he talks about how the generations view each other, it's from being a part of the generation that made you guys cut your hair, as one of the people who said "Who gives a **** about their hair?"

    His view of the world has largely shaped my own. He says the only difference between generations is the perspective at which the individual is viewing them.

    He says little things are different, such as the way I'll make the same joke to him that I would a person my own age (for example, last year he was talking about a woman who was in her early 70's and he said that "she was a looker in her day" and I told him to stop "oggling the jailbait" which caused him to laugh his ass off and call me a "young punk") but that he prefers that I can sit there and treat him like I would a friend without feeling the need to censor myself for the illusion of respect and deference. He says that the very real and genuine respect and deference I give him by actually wanting to hang around with him is worth 1000 times all the "yes sirs" I could toss his way.

    For everyone it's different, but I treat all people as equals, and treat everyone with the same degree of respect (the highest), regardless of their age.

    Age is only a number. What makes someone a person is so much more valuable to me. Giving false deference and staying one level removed from a person based on their "elder" status only prevents me from being able to get close to them.

    I value the fact that my mom's uncle is my friend far, far more than I value the fact that he's my great uncle.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 03-01-10 at 07:00 PM.
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    That was great, Tucker.

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post

    All this new age "reasoning" sounds all well and good. But when I look at the finished product (today's young adults), compared to the finished products from my day and age, I have to wonder.
    You do realize that that is exactly what your parents said.....

  9. #269
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    You do realize that that is exactly what your parents said.....
    Yes sir, I do. But my parents were bitching about long hair, rock-n-roll and things like that. That's a far cry from bitching about drive-by's and graffitti and all-out offensive "young punk" disrespect, no?

    As I alluded to earlier, I shudder to think what the offspring of today's youth will bring to the table.

    If history repeats itself, it's only gonna get worse.

    BUT...... for the most part our youth is something to be very proud of. It's just the cockroach punks of their generation that I take issue with. Far more dangerous than the cockroach punks from my generation. And there are far more of them too. It's not this generations fault though. It's their parents (or lack thereof.) And those parents aren't far removed from MY generation.

    My generation, generally speaking, did a piss-poor job raising our children. Myself, and many others like me did good. But there are too many that did not.
    Last edited by Captain America; 03-02-10 at 10:51 AM.

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    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

  10. #270
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    There are some legitimate gripes here and some exaggerations. The old way of settling a dispute is better than today's way. Where some douches think that manliness stems from a weapon. But there are still many of us who would be considered throwbacks to the old way as well.

    As far as idolizing the gangster lifestyle, I know very few people who do that. The one's I grew up with that did usually got their asses kicked regularly for it.

    I cuss like a mother ****er, but that's as much a part of being raised by bog-Irish parents as it is being a part of my generation. Most of my friends that are in my generation think I cuss too much, actually. And I've never painted graffiti on anyone's property, and I know very few people that did.

    The point I was making is that the issues may be slightly different in how they are manifested, but they are essentially the same in their base form. And they are usually done by the minority within the group, not the majority.

    But there are many of us in this generation who can and do surprise even the most cynical of the old-timers every day.

    I hang out with my mom's 84-year-old uncle about once a month. We go to the pub and have a few drinks together. He was drafted into the Army during the Korean War shortly after he came to the US from Ireland. What I wrote before stems largely from the conversations I have with him, and are practically verbatim from his own comments.

    When he talks about how the generations view each other, it's from being a part of the generation that made you guys cut your hair, as one of the people who said "Who gives a **** about their hair?"

    His view of the world has largely shaped my own. He says the only difference between generations is the perspective at which the individual is viewing them.

    He says little things are different, such as the way I'll make the same joke to him that I would a person my own age (for example, last year he was talking about a woman who was in her early 70's and he said that "she was a looker in her day" and I told him to stop "oggling the jailbait" which caused him to laugh his ass off and call me a "young punk") but that he prefers that I can sit there and treat him like I would a friend without feeling the need to censor myself for the illusion of respect and deference. He says that the very real and genuine respect and deference I give him by actually wanting to hang around with him is worth 1000 times all the "yes sirs" I could toss his way.

    For everyone it's different, but I treat all people as equals, and treat everyone with the same degree of respect (the highest), regardless of their age.

    Age is only a number. What makes someone a person is so much more valuable to me. Giving false deference and staying one level removed from a person based on their "elder" status only prevents me from being able to get close to them.

    I value the fact that my mom's uncle is my friend far, far more than I value the fact that he's my great uncle.
    that was absolutely amazing.
    It's not rape if you scream "SURPRISE" first.

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