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Thread: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outraged

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    the child must have put up on hell of a fight if it required the school resource officer.
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    What is the point of pledging? I said my marriage vows in October 1998. Do I need to say them on a regular basis to show my allegience to my husband?
    You've never reavowed you're marriage vows in various ways over the years? From statements of love to your husband to times when you're together and you tell him you'll always be with him or always be faithful to him, or how no matter what happens you'll be there? While not a formal situation I highly doubt you've never ever essentially restated your vows and your affirmation to your devotion to your marriage.

    This generally doesn't happen with your country as much. Saying you love your husband comes out far more often I'd wager than your country. You don't tend to have deep conversations stating your faithfulness to the country. In part, because while comparable, they also are strikingly different.

    If you want to use the marriage vows things, the pledge is simply a more vocal and organized version of your likely often private reaffirmations of your vows with your husband.

    More so, to me, its a cultural thing. Much like a fight song for your sports team, or wearing the colors of your college, or different tennets of a greek organization, things like the Pledge, the Flag, the red white & blue, are cultural trigger points that are commonly shared amongst all Americans.

    In theory you could have a San Francisco living liberal gay black artist and a Boston based WASP stock broker and despite all their differences, they at the very least can share some commonality and some cultural connection through their similarities regarding the country. It doesn't always work in theory, especially as over the yeras its became far more "Cool" and a sign of "smart people" to be rebellious and not just critical but downright negative towards the country, but that's the theory behind such stuff.

    Some will say its nationalism, or faux patriotism, and perhaps it is but I have little real care for that. Many of those same people are probably heading out come football season with a hat or a jersey for their team, or know their colleges fight song by heart, or some other group mentality thing that is there for the same reason....to bind people from various walks of life together through the sharing of a commonality.

    While yes, I understand the Pledge is "new", so much as it isn't the exact same as its always been (the whole under god thing), its also not like we signed it into law in the past 8 years. Its something that for a great majority of Americans is part of life, is part of that ingrown culture. To me I've never understood people that won't do the pledge but will adhere completely to the national anthem, as I see them both as very similar in purpose to me.

    I will say the pledge whenever I see its being done, or stand and remove my hat for the anthem, or properly dispose of a flag, or go up and greet and be respectful to the President if I've ever seen him because frankly, to me, this is a part of our culture, this is a part of our tradition, and I don't think I'm some kind of "smarter than the rest of the crowd" type by thumbing my nose at tradition.

    I've never understood how people can get all pissy about tradition and "nationalism" type symbols here, but will buy into it anywhere else be it holiday traditions, school traditions, etc.

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    It's just social conditioning; nationalism is silly.
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Class our regularly scheduled course of study has been postponed today so that we may bring you the pertinent topic of civil disobedience in America today and historically.

    Thank you'
    Your Teacher.


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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I remember like yesterday, in elementary school, 6th grade, how Mike Harris, (from a Jehova Witness family,) sat out the pledge every morning.

    Elsie Haltom, a hardcore southern baptist teacher of ours, made him go stand in the hall with his nose in the corner as the rest of the class said the pledge. That was something that was usually reserved for naughty boys and girls.

    Then, afterwards, as he would come back into the classroom, it was to the jeers of Ms. Haltom as she frequently would harass him as he walked to his desk. "What kind of parents wouldn't allow their son to say the pledge?" "That's the devil in your church ruining your mind." "You should be ashamed of yourself."

    Poor ol' Mike. He was just stuck in the middle. I went through 1 -6 grade with him. Nice kid. He coulda cared less about any church or any pledge.

    I wish I could, as an adult, see that teacher again and tell her what a bitch she is. But she was an old bitch 40 years ago so I know she's got to be a dead bitch now.
    I remember when my whole first grade class got paddled for something.
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You've never reavowed you're marriage vows in various ways over the years? From statements of love to your husband to times when you're together and you tell him you'll always be with him or always be faithful to him, or how no matter what happens you'll be there? While not a formal situation I highly doubt you've never ever essentially restated your vows and your affirmation to your devotion to your marriage.

    This generally doesn't happen with your country as much. Saying you love your husband comes out far more often I'd wager than your country. You don't tend to have deep conversations stating your faithfulness to the country. In part, because while comparable, they also are strikingly different.


    I will say the pledge whenever I see its being done, or stand and remove my hat for the anthem, or properly dispose of a flag, or go up and greet and be respectful to the President if I've ever seen him because frankly, to me, this is a part of our culture, this is a part of our tradition, and I don't think I'm some kind of "smarter than the rest of the crowd" type by thumbing my nose at tradition.

    I've never understood how people can get all pissy about tradition and "nationalism" type symbols here, but will buy into it anywhere else be it holiday traditions, school traditions, etc.
    Surely the point isn't about people objecting to pledging allegiance but to it being compulsory.

    You say that people don't informally renew their devotion to country much. As a non-US citizen it appears to me, if this forum is anything to go by, that people do it all the time. That's not a criticism, just an observation.

    You can't win any argument by calling on tradition. Tradition is morally neutral; there are good and bad traditions and traditons of both kinds survive.

    Freedom of speech is not just a tradition in the US, it's a glorious, praise-worthy fundament of your society. Does freedom of speech dictate that you have the freedom NOT to speak something you don't wish to as well?
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I remember when my whole first grade class got paddled for something.
    I'm sure that gave the teacher a great deal of pleasure.
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I'm sure that gave the teacher a great deal of pleasure.
    I wouldn't know.
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I remember like yesterday, in elementary school, 6th grade, how Mike Harris, (from a Jehova Witness family,) sat out the pledge every morning.

    Elsie Haltom, a hardcore southern baptist teacher of ours, made him go stand in the hall with his nose in the corner as the rest of the class said the pledge. That was something that was usually reserved for naughty boys and girls.

    Then, afterwards, as he would come back into the classroom, it was to the jeers of Ms. Haltom as she frequently would harass him as he walked to his desk. "What kind of parents wouldn't allow their son to say the pledge?" "That's the devil in your church ruining your mind." "You should be ashamed of yourself."

    Poor ol' Mike. He was just stuck in the middle. I went through 1 -6 grade with him. Nice kid. He coulda cared less about any church or any pledge.

    I wish I could, as an adult, see that teacher again and tell her what a bitch she is. But she was an old bitch 40 years ago so I know she's got to be a dead bitch now.
    My guy was Bob Kramer, a Jehovah Witness. He sat quietly while the rest of us said the pledge. No one ever showed him any disrespect and the teacher informed the rest of us why, that it was against his religious beliefs. He was a good kid and the smartest in the class. That was 1963. I miss those times.
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    I never understood the act of pledging. I mean, whats the point anyway?

    BTW that is a legitimate question. Is it to do with having a large first generation immigrant population?
    And if so, whats the point of repeating the pledge again and again.......

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