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Thread: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outraged

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Except where there is coercion by the threat of punishment for not complying.
    /threadban

    Your average typical teacher does no such thing, so your point is invalid.

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Your average, typical teacher encouraging students to stand, salute the flag and recite the pledge by doing it themselves and giving positive support to others who choose to do so is roll-modeling and there's nothing wrong with that.
    That isn't role modeling. Role modeling is when you set an example without actually telling anyone what to do.
    Last edited by mpg; 02-26-10 at 01:09 PM.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Except where there is coercion by the threat of punishment for not complying.
    In fairness to Jerry, we were having a more general discussion about the Pledge in schools where there is no punishment.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If those words are meaningless then surely no one should have a problem reciting them.
    I find religion meaningless. Does that mean I should have no problem going to church anyways? No. Because I refuse to do things I find meaningless.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    So...a hypothetical...

    If the child had been escorted out of the class because she was wearing a "God Bless America" T-Shirt, or a "Its a BABY, not a CHOICE" T-shirt...would people still be taking the same sides and positions?

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If those words are meaningless then surely no one should have a problem reciting them.
    Then surely you would have no problem reciting meaningless words all the time, every day? I mean, who cares, right?
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    I find that the American right has a fixation with rituals. I honestly do not get it. I'm not saying it doesn't happen with the left but the right has an almost absolute monopoly on American ritualism.

    If you do not salute the flag, you're not American enough. If you do not own a shirt with an American flag on it, you're not American enough. If you do not eat unhealthy and greasy ass food on a daily basis, you're not American enough. If you do not own some monstrosity of a truck and the most expensive store you know is not Wal-Mart, you're not American enough. It is quite ridiculous.

    The pledge of allegiance is just one more of these rituals. Things so many Americans do and push through our heads to feel better about themselves. Oh the audacity of not saying the pledge! You hate America! No. Maybe I find your rituals to be ridiculous? Maybe I'd rather demonstrate my love for my country by being a law abiding citizen or serving in the armed forces or helping out my community. But that is never good enough for these falsely patriotic Americans.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Didn't read all of the thread, but kids should NOT be forced to pledge allegiance to something they cannot comprehend. Not to mention their inability to comprehend what "pledging allegiance" even means in its own right.

    No one, no where, no-how should EVER be forced to pledge allegiance to anyone or anything. Such a notion goes against everything this country stands for. Forcing a child to pledge allegiance is the biggest slap in the face there is to all who fought and died for FREEDOM and choice.

    There is no need for pledging allegiance anyway. Either they love the country, or they do not, or they don't know. Regardless of which it is, citing some words like a robot isn't going to help anything.

    That teacher should be reprimanded and suspended.
    Last edited by rivrrat; 02-26-10 at 01:38 PM.

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    What is the point of pledging? I said my marriage vows in October 1998. Do I need to say them on a regular basis to show my allegience to my husband?
    Exactly. You show your love and devotion by actions, not reciting some words like a robot. That is how it should be.

    And if he required you to recite some pledge on a daily basis in order to reaffirm your dedication to him, I would imagine most people would find that quite tyrannical and insecure. Not to mention sad and pathetic.
    Last edited by rivrrat; 02-26-10 at 01:39 PM.

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    There is no need for pledging allegiance anyway.
    Of course there is, that's just stupid.

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