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Thread: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outraged

  1. #131
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    And let's talk about left and right. A small governemnt mentality would not stand for such a statement as "indivisible". It removes state's rights right off the bat.

    A true small government conservative abhors the very concept of indivisible. This pledge is to unity of thought. Which is why the dream of it's creators was to hear many children recite this indoctrination prayer in unison, and in a uniform fashion.
    This, here, is a very interesting argument and one I have not heard before or thought about. Well done sir, this will give me something to chew on.

    It is brainwashing at it's finest. It places the state at a level that should only be occupied by family and God. The state works for it's people, not the other way around.
    And here is where we split. I don't see it as pledging fealty to the state, but to the COUNTRY. To me these are two different things, connected but not the same. The State is the government, the beuracracy. The State is the specific President, Congress, Judges. The State is the actual laws made by those bodies. To me the State is the tangiable.

    To me the Country is more philisophical. The country is the intangable. The country is the principles that we uphold, such as freedom, liberty, justice, etc. To me the Country is its culture, its history, its traditions.

    While not exactly parrallel, the office of the President to me would be akin to the country, an individual president being the state. One could have the utmost respect for the office of the President, while finding the person occupying said office to be a scumbag. Likewise I believe one can find the state to be completely distasteful, while truly loving the country and what it stands for.

    I think this is where we split. I think this is where I have no issue with them pushing this, but instead if it was focused instead on the specific president, or on the government, rather than the country, that I'd begin to have an issue with it.

    I understand where you're coming from. But I simply feel there is a difference between devotion to ones country and devotion to the "state" as you use it.

    Personally, I think man do view it in just that way you describe as well, only with the country not the "state".

    God
    Family
    Country

    is the order of things I know many, many people believe. I just don't necessarily think those people equat Country to "Government" exactly.

  2. #132
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And here is where we split. I don't see it as pledging fealty to the state, but to the COUNTRY. To me these are two different things, connected but not the same. The State is the government, the beuracracy. The State is the specific President, Congress, Judges. The State is the actual laws made by those bodies. To me the State is the tangiable.

    To me the Country is more philisophical. The country is the intangable. The country is the principles that we uphold, such as freedom, liberty, justice, etc. To me the Country is its culture, its history, its traditions.

    While not exactly parrallel, the office of the President to me would be akin to the country, an individual president being the state. One could have the utmost respect for the office of the President, while finding the person occupying said office to be a scumbag. Likewise I believe one can find the state to be completely distasteful, while truly loving the country and what it stands for.

    I think this is where we split. I think this is where I have no issue with them pushing this, but instead if it was focused instead on the specific president, or on the government, rather than the country, that I'd begin to have an issue with it.

    I understand where you're coming from. But I simply feel there is a difference between devotion to ones country and devotion to the "state" as you use it.
    The pledge is first to the flag, and then to the republic for which it stands.

    You've got to look at the original pledge first and foremost. The later additions only serve to throw dirt over the most socialist aspects:

    "I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the Republic for which it stands-one Nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  3. #133
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Since when do 13 year olds decide what goes on in class? I'd get on the phone with a parent and explain that they can be the parent outside of school hours. What a little creep they are turning him into.

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Ajmel Quereshi?? You can't make this stuff up. The ACLU had to send someone from India to defend this child, in a time when Muslim stereotyping is an issue. Did Bob Jones have the day off or something? Whether this guy is Muslim or not is irrelevent, it's the appearance. The kid didn't do anything wrong, though in our day we'd have probably got the crap kicked out of us during recess. Anyway, the teacher should be fired, an apology isn't enough. I believe in the pledge, but damn this isn't the USSR. The police should charge the teacher with false arrest.
    Not to be picky, but India is a mostly Hindu nation.

    As to the OP, the teacher should be summarily fired. Her actions are directly opposed to the freedom and justice she supposedly pledges to.

  5. #135
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Refusing to mindlessly recite meaningless words does not make you anti-American.
    If those words are meaningless then surely no one should have a problem reciting them.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  6. #136
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It's just social conditioning; nationalism is silly.
    Nationalism is good.

    The ideas now associated with nationalism are undesirable to many, that is granted.

    Back to the topic for myself: Yes, this was stupid. Good going teacher. *facepalm
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Actually, it is about giving one's self up to the nation. Which is why it is not "socialist".
    I didn't say it was communist.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  8. #138
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    But wouldn't that require an assumption that what is deemed "anti-American/Unpatriotic" is not subjective when it really is?
    Not everything is always subjective. For example protesters supporting the enemy during a time of war, protesters calling for abolishing the constitution or constitutional rights(without creating an amendment to repeal that amendment)
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #139
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    The 13 year old didn't come up with this notion of not saying the pledge.
    The mother did.

    So rather than the mother talk to the teacher about it expressing her opinion and her wishes about it she let's the child get in trouble with the teacher. Couldn't she have called the teacher and discussed it ? Couldn't she have? She has a chip on her shoulder.

  10. #140
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    Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Nationalism is good.
    Not always.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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