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Thread: Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

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    Re: Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    massive inflation in the 1920's you say
    let's take a look
    wrong again. in fact -10.5% in 1921 was the lowest rate of inflation in the 20th century
    Actually, it's you who are wrong again. CPI is not an accurate measure of inflation. Inflation is (as I've used the term many times on this board before) a general increase in the money supply. Look at how the money supply increased during the 1920s.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Actually, it's you who are wrong again. CPI is not an accurate measure of inflation. Inflation is (as I've used the term many times on this board before) a general increase in the money supply. Look at how the money supply increased during the 1920s.
    nope
    you should have said the money supply in the 1920's was such that it caused people to spend rather than save (that too, would have been wrong, but at least it would then correlate with the bogus position you have since backed into immediately above)
    but that was not what you said
    here is what you said:
    With inflation so persistent in the 1920s, people who wanted to save money were screwed no matter what they did.
    [emphasis added by bubba to show it does NOT read "money supply"]
    and i have offered you the inflation rates for the period 1914 until 2005 - which proves your weak assed argument to be both inarticulate and very wrong
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  3. #23
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    Re: Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    What next, he is against illegal immigration or something else?


    Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Under growing pressure from conservatives and "tea party" activists, Sen. John McCain of Arizona is having to defend his record of supporting the government's massive bailout of the financial system.

    In response to criticism from opponents seeking to defeat him in the Aug. 24 Republican primary, the four-term senator says he was misled by then-Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke. McCain said the pair assured him that the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program would focus on what was seen as the cause of the financial crisis, the housing meltdown.

    "Obviously, that didn't happen," McCain said in a meeting Thursday with The Republic's Editorial Board, recounting his decision-making during the critical initial days of the fiscal crisis. "They decided to stabilize the Wall Street institutions, bail out (insurance giant) AIG, bail out Chrysler, bail out General Motors. . . . What they figured was that if they stabilized Wall Street - I guess it was trickle-down economics - that therefore Main Street would be fine."

    Nearly 15 months later, commercial lenders still are in shaky condition and the commercial real-estate industry is in trouble, he said. On Friday, President Barack Obama announced $1.5 billion in funding for new measures to help Arizona and four other states hit hard by the tanked housing market and by joblessness.

    But McCain stopped short of calling the TARP a mistake.

    "Something had to be done because the world's financial system was on the verge of collapse," he said. "Any economist, liberal or conservative, would agree with that. The action they took, I don't agree with."

    Republican Senate primary challenger J.D. Hayworth is using the TARP vote as a bludgeon against McCain's reputation as a fiscal hawk. Tea partyers point to it as the start of a new explosion of federal spending that has continued into the Obama administration.
    I am so disgusted by these politicians and all their claims that they were mislead, they didnt know, no one told them. Thats their JOB to know before they vote. If you made a decision...man up and own it. If you were wrong, take your lumps like an adult.

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    Re: Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Any time a politician can make the claim that he was misled about a piece of legislation he didn't do his do diligence and use his own judgment after reading the Bill.

    This same claim will run rampant if the phony Health Bill passes as legislators scramble to justify voting for yet another bill they failed to read and understand.

    McCains time is past and he's not a Conservative and it's time for him to retire;.
    He needs to resign if he is sucker enough to be "misled"
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    nope
    you should have said the money supply in the 1920's was such that it caused people to spend rather than save (that too, would have been wrong, but at least it would then correlate with the bogus position you have since backed into immediately above)
    but that was not what you said
    here is what you said:
    [emphasis added by bubba to show it does NOT read "money supply"]
    and i have offered you the inflation rates for the period 1914 until 2005 - which proves your weak assed argument to be both inarticulate and very wrong
    When I mention inflation on this board I mean money supply. Ask people I've debated with on this board before. So no, that graph doesn't prove me wrong.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Really? You always point out the fact that people want to save so we need inflation to stop that.
    When did i say that?

    How is it that the financial system would have collapsed?
    Are you kidding? AIG's inability to honer their insurance swaps instantaneously devalues a considerable amount of securities held by financial institutions across the globe. The FDIC would have been liable for trillions upon trillions, not billions.

    Would a lot of companies gone under? Yes, and I say good. Some banks would have stuck around, and they would have gotten all the savings.
    You mean whatever savings were left? Your greenness shows through a statement such as the one above....

    Just get rid of FDIC and people would take care to research where they are saving their money.
    Research does not prevent a bank run or insolvency.

    Oh yeah, I'll be so glad that money will be wasted via government spending on things that I don't want. That's the way to have an economy responsive to your needs.
    Would you like some cheese?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    When I mention inflation on this board I mean money supply. Ask people I've debated with on this board before. So no, that graph doesn't prove me wrong.
    ok. in the future, when directing posts your way, i will substitute the term money supply whenever people who know what they are talking about would actually use the term inflation

    do you feel better now


    now, in return, i expect you to use the expression "dumb ass" whenever posting in reponse to me, in those instances where people who actually have an understanding of economics would instead use the term "conservative"
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #28
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    Re: Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    What next, he is against illegal immigration or something else?


    Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Under growing pressure from conservatives and "tea party" activists, Sen. John McCain of Arizona is having to defend his record of supporting the government's massive bailout of the financial system.

    In response to criticism from opponents seeking to defeat him in the Aug. 24 Republican primary, the four-term senator says he was misled by then-Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke. McCain said the pair assured him that the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program would focus on what was seen as the cause of the financial crisis, the housing meltdown.

    "Obviously, that didn't happen," McCain said in a meeting Thursday with The Republic's Editorial Board, recounting his decision-making during the critical initial days of the fiscal crisis. "They decided to stabilize the Wall Street institutions, bail out (insurance giant) AIG, bail out Chrysler, bail out General Motors. . . . What they figured was that if they stabilized Wall Street - I guess it was trickle-down economics - that therefore Main Street would be fine."

    Nearly 15 months later, commercial lenders still are in shaky condition and the commercial real-estate industry is in trouble, he said. On Friday, President Barack Obama announced $1.5 billion in funding for new measures to help Arizona and four other states hit hard by the tanked housing market and by joblessness.

    But McCain stopped short of calling the TARP a mistake.

    "Something had to be done because the world's financial system was on the verge of collapse," he said. "Any economist, liberal or conservative, would agree with that. The action they took, I don't agree with."

    Republican Senate primary challenger J.D. Hayworth is using the TARP vote as a bludgeon against McCain's reputation as a fiscal hawk. Tea partyers point to it as the start of a new explosion of federal spending that has continued into the Obama administration.
    I don't like McCain, but I think even less of him for refusing to stand behind his votes and actions. There's no bravery in politics these days, no willingness to support unpopular ideas that you truly believe are the best way to go; just pandering. On the left and the right.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
    Alex Salmond, First Minister of Scotland, Scottish National Party

  9. #29
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    Re: Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    When did i say that?
    You say that we save too much during recessions, don't you?

    Are you kidding? AIG's inability to honer their insurance swaps instantaneously devalues a considerable amount of securities held by financial institutions across the globe. The FDIC would have been liable for trillions upon trillions, not billions.
    I guess that goes hand-in-hand with what I say about FDIC.

    You mean whatever savings were left? Your greenness shows through a statement such as the one above....
    So then nearly 100% of the populace would have been unemployed and unable to accumulate wealth? Really?

    Research does not prevent a bank run or insolvency.
    Yes, it does. A bank with a relatively high reserve ratio is not going to go under as quickly or ever (depending on how high it is) like banks with low reserve ratios.

    Would you like some cheese?
    When the economy is not responsive to the demands of population then your economy sucks.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #30
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    Re: Sen. John McCain: I was misled on bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You say that we save too much during recessions, don't you?
    Nope! I said that saving increases during recessions as income decreases. This is brought on due to fear and is not desirable. A recession is not... i repeat is not relieved because a necessary amount of saving is achieved.

    It relates to human behavior and psychology.

    I guess that goes hand-in-hand with what I say about FDIC.
    Maybe, you have to expand your quote a bit.

    So then nearly 100% of the populace would have been unemployed and unable to accumulate wealth? Really?
    No need to put words in my mouth.... The FDIC goes bankrupt and the majority of peoples savings will be depleted.

    Yes, it does. A bank with a relatively high reserve ratio is not going to go under as quickly or ever (depending on how high it is) like banks with low reserve ratios.
    A bank with a relatively high reserve ratio was needed in dark ages. Such an institution is unprofitable and unnecessary. They do not meet the needs in the era of fiat.

    When the economy is not responsive to the demands of population then your economy sucks.
    What demands of yours are not being met? The people demand higher paying jobs! This economy does suck
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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