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Thread: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

  1. #751
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    No they don't share their racks but they sleep only a few inches from one another in fact I was a witness at a courtmartial where a guy made sexual advance against another guy by reaching up to the rack he was in and assaulting him..........


    What else you said is pretty much true that is why if they ever do away with DADT they should go back to the way it was prior to DADT......
    Then the gay guy in this case was a bad person. I don't care what sexual attractions you have. None excuse sexual assault. Most homosexuals are not like this. I don't care how long they've had to be living in the same quarters as people they're attracted to. Most homosexuals, like most heterosexuals, can control themselves enough not to commit sexual assault.

    And I highly doubt there's any reason that the military would repeal DADT just to go back to the old way. Most military personnel now days could care less if someone they work with is gay. Even the guys in combat units. My husband has told me he could care less as long as they don't hit on him. And I've talked to several other Marines who don't think it's a big deal and 1 or 2 who are gay. The reality is that gays are in the military. And eventually they will be able to serve openly.
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I would say you are the exception rather then the rule........Sailors go on the beach to get drunk and pick up girls for the most part.......I don't know what females do because when I was in the Navy there were no females aboard combatents and they did not have the problems they have today.....

    Its a whole new ball game now but if your telling me that female navy personnel don't go to bars to pick up guys I am not buying it..........You may have been the exception to the rule...........
    There's a difference between single sailor behavior and married sailor behavior. Many single sailors I knew would go to the bar to get drunk and/or meet someone. Most married sailors I knew went to the bar to hang out and have fun. Not a whole lot of the married sailors, male or female, that I knew were going to the bars to hook up. Some were, but most, no.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Like I said, it should be left up to unit commanders; DADT does not allow this kind of discretion; it is effectively a zero tolerance policy; instead, we should leave it up to the experts, that is, the military.
    Good, so you think DADT needs to change at least.
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    The military is now expert in homosexuality?
    The military is an expert in unit cohesiveness and combat effectiveness. I know that kind of stuff is low on your list of priorities, but I think it should be given precedence over feelings and ideology.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The military is an expert in unit cohesiveness and combat effectiveness. I know that kind of stuff is low on your list of priorities, but I think it should be given precedence over feelings and ideology.
    Yes, that's it, every one who disagrees with you must not think those things are important...
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The problem here is where does that discretion stop. Should the commanders be allowed to decide to discharge anyone they find could be a problem to good order and discipline? There would be a whole mess of problems with this. I could see guys in a unit going out of their way to make it look like someone everyone, or even a group within the unit couldn't stand was a problem to good order and discipline, and then instead of the real trouble makers being punished, the guy they don't like would get discharged. And what would be wrong with simply transferring that person? Could work, except you would still have the problem that you're not expecting the unit personnel to be tolerant of differences, even those they don't like and you're technically still punishing the victim of the intolerance instead of those who are being intolerant.

    This policy wouldn't be acceptable if the issue was about racism causing a problem in good order and discipline. Here's an example that might make you see the point. What if you had a group of guys in a unit who didn't like the fact that this guy dated other guys? He is professional at work, but the unit knows that he likes guys because they have seen him around town holding hands with one. Now this group of guys who don't like guys dating other guys is constantly making disruptions or obviously doesn't like the gay guy. They purposely go out of their way to disobey or argue with the gay guy's orders. I'm sure you would call this a disruption to good order and discipline, and suggest that the guy get discharged or transferred. But what if you replace gay guy or guy who dates other guys, with guys who date girls of another race. Would it still be acceptable or would the intolerant ones be the ones punished or forced to change?
    That would be for the commander to decide. Why should either of us impose a rigid precondition upon him or her when they're in a better position to exercise discretion? Sure, things like that might happen, and it stinks, but nothing's perfect, and it's better than what we have now.

    Personally, I could care less about "fairness" and hurt feelings. The military should have as much discretion over its troops as possible. The less involvement from civilians and politicians the better. Mothers of America are already starting to turn the Marine Corps into a bunch of wimps...

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Yes, that's it, every one who disagrees with you must not think those things are important...
    Yup, basically.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Good, so you think DADT needs to change at least.
    I think so, yes. I think we should let the military decide on a case-by-case basis instead of the rigid mandate we have now. The military commanders are smart enough to implement it equitably and sensibly, I believe.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Yup, basically.
    You do realize how unreasonable you sound now, right?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You do realize how unreasonable you sound now, right?
    Well, several people (including two top Generals) have made solid arguments as to why an immediate repeal of DADT could negatively effect combat readiness and your response has basically been, "Oh well."

    You don't seem all that concerned with the effects this policy change could have on infantry units. That's just how it seems to me.

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