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Thread: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

  1. #531
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Mass court martials? How many? When? Where? Why? Circumstances? Links? 10 years in the Navy, and I never seen anyone get in trouble at all for hurting or even harassing a gay person. Now I have heard about units/personnel in the Navy, Marines and Army (don't know a whole lot about the AF) that gave guys crap for being gay, but these incidents didn't involve violence or even harsh words. Now of course I've heard about the occasional case where someone claims that someone else was gay and was either hitting on them or asked them out, and the person got ticked off and beat the crap out of the gay guy, but I don't know of any mass court martials recently or even a huge amount of cases of these things happening. Most people are too concerned about getting in trouble to beat someone up for looking at them or just for being gay. And most gays probably aren't going to actually hit on a straight guy. Most gay guys seem to know which guys are gay or straight, unless the guy is metro, but then he probably wouldn't beat the gay guy up for hitting on him.
    Wow...my wife is right...sarcasm DOESNT translate well...

    Thats the point. There WASNT mass Court Martials and since it was implemented the policy has worked as advertised.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Again, you're wrong. The UCMJ makes sodomy illegal for straights the same way it's illegal for gays. Just like adultry is illegal, IAW the UCMJ and a married couple that engages in a swinger lifestyle, the service member in that couple can be subject to military discipline.

    So, no, there isn't a double standard.
    But the rules and/or punishments are not the same. A heterosexual couple caught having sex in a base parking lot would face NJP, probably lose rank and pay, and be put on restriction. A homosexual couple caught in a base parking lot would face the same plus be administratively discharged from the military. Also, a heterosexual military member is allowed to marry his chosen partner, a homosexual military member is not, even if it is legal. Even an attempt to marry someone of the same sex, whether the marriage would be legal or not, will get you discharged. Big discrepancy in policy, since the military doesn't throw the hetero member out for marrying the person he/she loves. Also, I've heard of very few cases where a heterosexual person would be investigated for violating the UCMJ when they admit to getting a bj, or anal. Can't say the same for gays. Enforcement of the UCMJ isn't fair.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  3. #533
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Wow...my wife is right...sarcasm DOESNT translate well...

    Thats the point. There WASNT mass Court Martials and since it was implemented the policy has worked as advertised.
    I'm sorry, I just realized I read that wrong. My bad. I apologize for the rant.

    But DADT still makes things unfair for gays, even if it is more fair than the previous policy.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I'm sorry, I just realized I read that wrong. My bad. I apologize for the rant.

    But DADT still makes things unfair for gays, even if it is more fair than the previous policy.
    No worries. bleieve it or not I really dont take any of this seriously. Read...type...breathe...

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But the rules and/or punishments are not the same. A heterosexual couple caught having sex in a base parking lot would face NJP, probably lose rank and pay, and be put on restriction. A homosexual couple caught in a base parking lot would face the same plus be administratively discharged from the military. Also, a heterosexual military member is allowed to marry his chosen partner, a homosexual military member is not, even if it is legal. Even an attempt to marry someone of the same sex, whether the marriage would be legal or not, will get you discharged. Big discrepancy in policy, since the military doesn't throw the hetero member out for marrying the person he/she loves.
    A hetero couple caught committing sodomy would face a courts martial and probably a stiffer penalty than a gay soldier who was simply discharged.

    So, I guess you're right, there is a discrepency and gay soldiers who are discovered should be outright court martialed vice simply receiving a less than honorable discharge. Agreed?

    Also, I've heard of very few cases where a heterosexual person would be investigated for violating the UCMJ when they admit to getting a bj, or anal. Can't say the same for gays. Enforcement of the UCMJ isn't fair.
    When I was in the service, I saw more cases of heteros being court martialed for committing sodomy than I did gays getting discharged under DADT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    No worries. bleieve it or not I really dont take any of this seriously. Read...type...breathe...
    This is how I keep myself from ranting to my husband about all the injustices I see during a day. Like I told him the other night, I know what the reality of the world is, and that I can't change it by myself, but the more people who hear (see) what I want changed and how, the better the chances of getting it changed. If people don't know what you want to change, chances are it will never happen.

    Gays openly in the military is a big issue to me because I had a good friend put out because of military policies toward gays. And I hate things that aren't fair.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #537
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    A hetero couple caught committing sodomy would face a courts martial and probably a stiffer penalty than a gay soldier who was simply discharged.

    So, I guess you're right, there is a discrepency and gay soldiers who are discovered should be outright court martialed vice simply receiving a less than honorable discharge. Agreed?



    When I was in the service, I saw more cases of heteros being court martialed for committing sodomy than I did gays getting discharged under DADT.
    This actually happened, and the guys got NJP and discharged. A hetero couple would get the NJP unless they requested court martial. It's not automatic, at least not anymore.

    Did those couples get caught doing it someplace they weren't supposed or were they turned in?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Again, you're wrong. The UCMJ makes sodomy illegal for straights the same way it's illegal for gays. Just like adultry is illegal, IAW the UCMJ and a married couple that engages in a swinger lifestyle, the service member in that couple can be subject to military discipline.

    So, no, there isn't a double standard.
    DADT discharges are not generally for sodomy.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This actually happened, and the guys got NJP and discharged. A hetero couple would get the NJP unless they requested court martial. It's not automatic, at least not anymore.

    When soldiers commit a crime, they can't choose between an article 15, or a courts martial. There's either a plea bargain with reduced charges, or a courts martial.

    Did those couples get caught doing it someplace they weren't supposed or were they turned in?
    Most of the ones I heard of were caught on post. However, it was more about what they were doing than where they were doing it that rated a courts martial.

    Just like a platoon leader I served with that got busted plowing a 14 y/o in the back of a hummvee. The courts martial was more concerned about him porking a 14 y/o girl that him doing it in an Army vehicle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    As I thought, it's all about a gay soldier being able to advertise his/her sexuality to the rest of the world.
    Just like a strait person can. It's about a gay person being able to bring their significant other to command functions. It's about not having to worry about some one finding out they are gay and having their career ruined.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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