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Thread: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

  1. #441
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I believe they are discharged as "other than honorable". It's an RE4, which means basically they can never re-enlist.
    Just curious... is that a general discharge, or does that refer to something else?
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Just curious... is that a general discharge, or does that refer to something else?
    To be honest, I am not sure. Let me do a little looking in a few minutes and get back with you on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Just curious... is that a general discharge, or does that refer to something else?
    I gots a definitive answer. http://sldn.3cdn.net/48ee19f69cf2e4d028_54m6bri8u.pdf

    Scroll down to page 43, the start of a section entitled VIII. “DON’T ASK, DON’T TELL” DISCHARGES AND AFTERMATH.

    After 180 days of service, service members who are discharged administratively may receive one of only three types of discharges: Honorable, General (Under Honorable Conditions), or Other Than Honorable (OTH). Service members often believe that discharges under “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” are Bad Conduct Discharges (BCD) or Dishonorable Discharges (DD). This is not the case. A BCD or DD can only be determined by courtmartial following criminal prosecution.182

    The standard for what discharge characterization a service member should receive under “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” is the same as for enlisted service members who come to the end of their term of service (ETS/EAOS) or officers who resign their commission under routine circumstances. Service members should receive an Honorable or a General (under honorable conditions) discharge characterization based on their overall record unless “aggravating circumstances” are present or the service member is “dual processed” for homosexual conduct and another reason for discharge such as misconduct.183 In other words, just the fact that a service member has “come out” should not negatively impact the service member’s discharge characterization. If the service member is being discharged because of a “homosexual act,” however, an aggravating factor could lead to a lower discharge characterization, including an OTH.
    Summary: Usually will be a general, unless being discharged for a "homosexual act", in which case it will probably be an OTH. The whole section is interesting reading, as is the whole document.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    I joined to post on this subject.

    I have not served but my Boyfriend has spent 12 years in the military.(I actually signed up here with his information so he might post later) Anyways I have talked to him about this and I agree with what he has to say.


    I agree with him that if people who are openly gay can serve then women and men can all live with each other. All showers, bath rooms, training rooms, etc can be used by anyone at any time.If a man wants to take a shower he can go right in and shower with all the women, anytime he wants to. There should be no signs anywhere pointing out that we have two sexes. All signs should be "humans shower here" etc.

    Why would it be ok that women have a problem with showering with men but straight men cant have a problem with showering with gay men. I know my boyfriend would LOVE to shower with some of the women he works with. I would NOT like it at all!

    If sexual orientation should not be a factor for gay folks then there should be no factor on anyones sex at all. I agree, now, after he explained himself to me that it would be rough to shower with a guy you just heard talking about his boyfriend and his ripped abs if I were a man.

    To me this makes alot of sense, maybe to you it doesn't but it seems to be why my boyfriend and his buddies are not for this at all.

    If I don't make alot of sense I'm sorry, I got woke up by the dogs and couldn't go back to sleep, I'm still a bit groggy.
    Last edited by Wisbowmen; 02-26-10 at 04:31 AM.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    What have we learned here..

    Gays bleed, eat, and take a **** differently than non gays.
    Gays are horny all the time and will jump on anything with a pulse.
    Gays are a disruption to people of the same sex, but only in the military.

    And that homophobia is a live and well in the US military and on these boards!

    Funny how being gay in the UK military is not a problem or has not created any of the dooms day problems the homophobes claim will happen.. same with many other military organisations around the world.. ohh well, next they will claim that there is some sort of "difference" between a US solider and that of any other nation.
    Last edited by PeteEU; 02-26-10 at 04:36 AM.
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Do you have any military background or experience? That might go a long way to explaining why it doesnt make sense to you.

    The military is a fairly testosterone driven component, especially during times of combat. I can guarantee that there will be problems that disrupt he mission. The GREAT majority of soldiers of ALL races object to it. And BTW...next chance you get...have a conversation with blacks and hispanics and make sure you convince them that homosexuals are just like them. Like it or not...MOST people dont believe homosexuality is 'right' which is why consistently homosexual marriage is voted down. MOST believe dont believe we should 'mandate' the behavior as 'right.' And right or wrong, that is a prevalent attitude that still exists and simply will not work in a military environment.
    No, I don't have a military background. However, I work at a place that has a very, very high number of veterans. Yesterday, I asked multiple co-workers about this very issue. These people served as officers, enlisted, and from various armed services (Navy, Marines, Air Force, Army). Some acknowledged there would be problems with allowing gay people (teasing, people being uncomfortable, problems arising when they start seeking benefits for their "partner"). Some of them are old enough that they were around when women were first allowed to truly serve (on active duty versus reserves). They witnessed the problems with that. NONE of them said, "It shouldn't happen." NONE. So your saying that the great majority of soldiers think this shouldn't happen is BS. Total BS. These people aren't lying to me. I saw the exact same concerns that apdst expressed in a prior post, but none of them said it should not happen. So excuse me if I take your words with a grain of salt.

    Do we allow ALL gays? What about those flamboyant types who join to take advantage of the education and healthcare opportunites. How seriously do you think others might take them when they are issuing orders? can you possibly see how that might cause a disruption?
    Personally, I do not think flamboyant types would want to serve. And if they did, so what? If the flamboyant gay person is a superior and someone refuses to take orders from the gay person, he/she should be punished as any soldier would be for failing to take orders.

    What about housing constraints? shall we now house men and women together? Or should no one be allowed to house together? I know I know...its not a fear that gay men (or women) will attack their same sex roommates. But what is the difference between a man and a woman being compelled to house and shower together and hetero and homosexual men and women housing and showering together?
    I agree. That would be a concern. Should it prevent gays from being able to serve? Nope.

    There is the field concern...treating open wounds. Just out of curiosity...last time I checked open homosexuals where still not permitted to donate blood-do you know if that is still the case? Why is that? And what about those questions do you think people might find as a barrier to providing field medical treatment? Oh...I know...it will never happen.
    I had not thought of this before. But aren't we in a situation where the individuals who provide field medical treatment are wearing rubber gloves? We could decide that in order for someone to be providing medical treatment, they have to undergo blood tests on a regular basis.

    You see...we arent talking about a 9-5 job we arent talking about a job where you go home and have no further association. We arent talking about a job where you can up and quit if you dont like it. Join. experience it. Your understanding might change.

    As a career NCO I cared about the safety of my people and mission accomplishment. Anything gets in the way of those two things, I wouldnt tolerate it.
    I see what you're saying. But when as many people as I spoke with yesterday tell me that while there would be problems, it should happen, I stand by my position in this thread.

    Thanks for your thoughts on this. I do appreciate it.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    And what about those who are gay and ARE following DADT policy. What about them? Are they distrustful? How about repealing DADT for these honest gays?



    How about allowing gay people to be in the military. That's a benefit, isn't it?
    How about allowing Americans to serve their country regardless of sexual orientation? That's a benefit, isn't it?

    Now how about you give me a few benefits of keeping DADT?
    Does DADT not allow gays to serve?
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Does DADT not allow gays to serve?
    It allows them to serve in a very uncomfortable way. Imagine living in close quarters with a bunch of people, depending on them in ways it's hard for civilians to understand, closer knit than most families, but unable to mention who you are dating for fear of not just losing your job, but losing that group of people. Imagine worrying every time you went out drinking that you might get drunk and say just the wrong thing, and have your career ruined, and it will follow you to an extent all your life(the reason for discharge is listed on your DD-214). It goes beyond even this, but that gives you an idea.

    The gays who do serve now are a truly remarkable bunch, to love their country and want to serve it to such an extent that they are willing to go through all this just to do so. I thank that alone is a good enough reason to repeal DADT, though of course it is not the actual reason being used.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Do we allow ALL gays? What about those flamboyant types who join to take advantage of the education and healthcare opportunites.
    I cannot believe I missed this. In amongst all the misrepresentations of gays, this little gem. Thanks aps for catching this.

    We allow strait people to join based on taking advantage of the educational and healthcare opportunities, why would gays be any different. Hell, we advertise the educational opportunities afforded by the military. Why is it somehow now bad if gays get in on the GI bill?

    Come on folks, lets try and use some logic here...
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I cannot believe I missed this. In amongst all the misrepresentations of gays, this little gem. Thanks aps for catching this.

    We allow strait people to join based on taking advantage of the educational and healthcare opportunities, why would gays be any different. Hell, we advertise the educational opportunities afforded by the military. Why is it somehow now bad if gays get in on the GI bill?

    Come on folks, lets try and use some logic here...
    Don't expect logic from people who's belief is ground in hate.
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