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Thread: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

  1. #121
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I suppose I should just leave you and CC to circle jerk your attack on the new guy posting here because he doesn't post the "right way" and says things you think aren't worth discussing. Better to do that then ya know, address any real attempts to discuss this issue.
    I'm happy to discuss the issue and don't completely disagree with you. I, however, will NOT tolerate someone making the ridiculous claims that because you do not have direct experience in an area, you cannot discuss it. It's a weak debate tactic, and I will confront it when I see it and demonstrate it's lack of logic. Or, if folks would prefer, I can play the same game throughout the forum.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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  2. #122
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    What was your main point? Wasn't it about morale and discipline? You said that there were homophobic people who'll not obey to orders given by gays, didn't you?
    Nope, that only shows you didn't read what was written and refuse to address the main issue. I'm not gonna bother re-writing my points because you... aren't interested in discussing this issue honestly. You are too busy playing "look at me, I'm pro-gay haha screw those idiots that don't support gays in the military" games.

    Now, if you wanna re-read what I ALL READY wrote, and address the main thrst which is quite clear and has very little to do with homophobes, and why good order and dicipline are important then I'll bother to respond to you again. Otherwise, save us both the effort of your typing and my reading anything else you might have to "add".
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    The military is full of millions of "homophobes"

    Are you going to change them all? no of course you arent.

    Like i said your opinion means squat anyway, the military will decide what happens

  4. #124
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Nope, that only shows you didn't read what was written and refuse to address the main issue. I'm not gonna bother re-writing my points because you... aren't interested in discussing this issue honestly. You are too busy playing "look at me, I'm pro-gay haha screw those idiots that don't support gays in the military" games.

    Now, if you wanna re-read what I ALL READY wrote, and address the main thrst which is quite clear and has very little to do with homophobes, and why good order and dicipline are important then I'll bother to respond to you again. Otherwise, save us both the effort of your typing and my reading anything else you might have to "add".
    I tried to summarize what you said. You repeat during 20 lines that it's gonna be bad but don't explain why. The two reasons you give are that it will affect morale and discipline/order.

    I'm just trying to understand why it can affect morale and discipline. Is that too complex?

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I'm happy to discuss the issue and don't completely disagree with you. I, however, will NOT tolerate someone making the ridiculous claims that because you do not have direct experience in an area, you cannot discuss it. It's a weak debate tactic, and I will confront it when I see it and demonstrate it's lack of logic. Or, if folks would prefer, I can play the same game throughout the forum.
    The first time you did it, was fine, repeatedly doing so is trollin because you have the excuse to be an ass to someone. That's not cool CC. And I think you wouldn't tolerate say, me doing that to another poster so knock it off.

    There is SOME weight to the argument that if you haven't served, you cannot see the internal issues at play, and if you cannot agree that someone that's been there, done that has valid experience to bring to the discussion... whose playing games?

    I won't disagree that a blanket "you MUST have served else you have no say" is silly, cause it IS silly. But it's more so a veteran (oh the irony) poster wasting multiple posts to attack a new guy over something so... silly.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  6. #126
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Untill you been cramed together with a bunch of other smelly young men in close quaters, all pissed off cause you been shot at all day, im sorry, you just have no clue. Nothing in the civilian life compares to war.

  7. #127
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    The first time you did it, was fine, repeatedly doing so is trollin because you have the excuse to be an ass to someone. That's not cool CC. And I think you wouldn't tolerate say, me doing that to another poster so knock it off.

    There is SOME weight to the argument that if you haven't served, you cannot see the internal issues at play, and if you cannot agree that someone that's been there, done that has valid experience to bring to the discussion... whose playing games?

    I won't disagree that a blanket "you MUST have served else you have no say" is silly, cause it IS silly. But it's more so a veteran (oh the irony) poster wasting multiple posts to attack a new guy over something so... silly.
    And I plan on stepping up my attacks on this issue, MrV. It's not just about one poster. I've seen MANY posters, some "veteran" posters, make this argument. It is an anti-debate tactic and VERY weak and I'm tired of seeing it. One who serves has just as much a right to argue their position as one who does not. Does a veteran have more say? Absolutely not. Does a veteran have more knowledge? Perhaps in some ways, nut not in others. Does a veteran have different knowledge? Yes.

    And for your information, if I saw another poster doing this, I would support them completely. Thus far, I haven't seen anyone have the gumption to confront this ridiculous position. I am attacking the lack of logic of a debate tactic. Now, if posters want to make the claim that veterans would have DIFFERENT insights into this issue, I will not argue that point. But the ONLY insights? I would hope that they would prove themselves to be consistent and NOT debate any topic that they are not involved in as a profession.

    Edit: and if you agree that the argument, "you MUST have served else you have no say" is silly, how about pointing it out when folks do it?
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 02-25-10 at 06:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #128
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanskills View Post
    Untill you been cramed together with a bunch of other smelly young men in close quaters, all pissed off cause you been shot at all day, im sorry, you just have no clue. Nothing in the civilian life compares to war.
    You still haven't addressed the issue that I presented. Here, I'll repost it:

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Wait... are you an 18-20 year old who has been around a bunch of "homos" in close quarters? I'm sorry, but if you are not, you have no experience on this issue, know nothing about it, and have no business discussing it.
    Do you see the inconsistency of what you are arguing, yet?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #129
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    I tried to summarize what you said. You repeat during 20 lines that it's gonna be bad but don't explain why. The two reasons you give are that it will affect morale and discipline/order.

    I'm just trying to understand why it can affect morale and discipline. Is that too complex?
    For you, the concept is too complex.

    I'll try to break it down, but I'm not getting my hopes up that you'll take this seriously.

    You have a group of young men, in an institution that is to say the least, built around trust, honor, and bravery. That's part of being a soldier, sailor airman or marine. The more ground combat oriented the particualr job is, say an army platoon close combat infantry unit, or a marine expiditinary unit... the more the emphasis is on being a "man". Now, right or wrong, good or bad, part of being a warrior is being big, tough, strong and getting freaky with the ladies.

    With me so far?

    Now introduce an openly gay male into that enviroment.

    How well will those manly men respond to a "fairy" in their midst? I can tell you from experience, when someone is found to be gay, things get ugly for that person. No one respects them and and they get drummed out.

    But what if they can't be drummed out... what if they are in charge of that platoon? Or that unit? and this person, who NEEDS his people to respect him to carry out the mission... has to overcome that built in prejudice to carry out the mission.

    Will it happen? Slowly, over time eventually the idea that your squad leader likes taking it doggie style won't be a big deal, but for the unforeseeable future IT WILL be an issue. That get's people KILLED in the field. Let's say our Gay Squad leader orders his men into the line of fire and some of them balk. Or even ignore the squad leader. That WILL happen. It happened when blacks were intigrated in. Sure, peopel got over that, but it took time, and it was needed.

    Neither you, nor any of the other pro-gays serving folks have given a mission oriented positive reason to change the system. It's all about feelings, and whats "fair" vs. what's good for the service. Is the COST of doing this really worth the effort.

    I say no, and it's based around saving lives and keeping the military from a needless distraction.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  10. #130
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    For you, the concept is too complex.

    I'll try to break it down, but I'm not getting my hopes up that you'll take this seriously.

    You have a group of young men, in an institution that is to say the least, built around trust, honor, and bravery. That's part of being a soldier, sailor airman or marine. The more ground combat oriented the particualr job is, say an army platoon close combat infantry unit, or a marine expiditinary unit... the more the emphasis is on being a "man". Now, right or wrong, good or bad, part of being a warrior is being big, tough, strong and getting freaky with the ladies.

    With me so far?

    Now introduce an openly gay male into that enviroment.

    How well will those manly men respond to a "fairy" in their midst? I can tell you from experience, when someone is found to be gay, things get ugly for that person. No one respects them and and they get drummed out.

    But what if they can't be drummed out... what if they are in charge of that platoon? Or that unit? and this person, who NEEDS his people to respect him to carry out the mission... has to overcome that built in prejudice to carry out the mission.

    Will it happen? Slowly, over time eventually the idea that your squad leader likes taking it doggie style won't be a big deal, but for the unforeseeable future IT WILL be an issue. That get's people KILLED in the field. Let's say our Gay Squad leader orders his men into the line of fire and some of them balk. Or even ignore the squad leader. That WILL happen. It happened when blacks were intigrated in. Sure, peopel got over that, but it took time, and it was needed.

    Neither you, nor any of the other pro-gays serving folks have given a mission oriented positive reason to change the system. It's all about feelings, and whats "fair" vs. what's good for the service. Is the COST of doing this really worth the effort.

    I say no, and it's based around saving lives and keeping the military from a needless distraction.
    Very well said sir, and with that gnight

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