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Thread: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

  1. #101
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Only way? No, it's just one way that it could happen. Nevertheless, it is a very distinct possibility, which is why so many people are hesitant to rush into repealing DADT.



    Well, you don't.



    Sure, she has some knowledge about the military, but the military is not a homogeneous organization that can be spoken of in meaningless generalities. I'm sure she has a lot of knowledge about drinking coffee and doing paper work but her understanding of combat units and their cohesiveness is nonexistent.
    Holy crap. You know nothing about this Brigadier General's service. One, she's a doctor. Two, she engaged in combat in 1991 and received a Purple Heart, the Bronze Star medal, Distinguished Flying Cross, and other awards. Three, her husband is an officer. I'd say more, but I worry you'll figure out who she is because she is well known.

    If it makes you feel better to degrade her service, be my guest.

  2. #102
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It is really tiring listening to people say, "well I served in the military, so only I know what happens there and what this is about." It gives the impression that only those who served have the right/knowledge to discuss this. If that is true, than anyone who has never had an abortion has no right to discuss the issue. And no one who is not a liberal (or conservative) can discuss what it's like to be a liberal (or conservative). And if anyone dares to comment on the psychological nature of anything, I'll just tell them that since they are not a therapist, their opinion is meaningless. It's a weak debate tactic, that attempts to dismiss opinion without reason. Here's another way to look at it. Those in the military have NO ability to comment on this issue because they have no objectivity. Guess what? Arguing from either position is cowardly and shows that you cannot defend your position, logically.
    Sorry mate but if you have never been in the military you cant talk about it. You just have no clue who it works, its very different than civilian life.

    The military isnt here to be guinny pigs for social projects, we are here to kill people and blow things up.

    Sorry if that offends you, just the way it is.
    Last edited by Vanskills; 02-25-10 at 04:34 AM.

  3. #103
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanskills View Post
    Sorry mate but if you have never been in the military you cant talk about it. You just have no clue who it works, its very different than civilian life.

    Sorry if that offends you, just the way it is.
    BS. It's cowardly debating, but if that's how you want it, I'll happily work this angle. Folks not in the military can discuss it all they want. Those in the military have no objectivity and should be excluded. Sorry you don't like that, but that's the way it is.

    Oh, and if we are talking about the psychology of what happens in the military, since you have no psychology degree, you have no clue how it works, so you can't discuss it.

    So which of the above do you want to go with. I can play either way.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 02-25-10 at 04:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Well mate, couch warriors like yourself wont be deciding the fate of the military anyway, so i guess we are safe,

  5. #105
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanskills View Post
    Well mate, couch warriors like yourself wont be deciding the fate of the military anyway, so i guess we are safe,
    Well "mate" grunts like you have no say in what's going to happen, so I suppose we are safe.

    Still want to play? Or do you want to actually debate the issue?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #106
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanskills View Post
    Sorry mate but if you have never been in the military you cant talk about it. You just have no clue who it works, its very different than civilian life.

    The military isnt here to be guinny pigs for social projects, we are here to kill people and blow things up.

    Sorry if that offends you, just the way it is.
    How comes you are allowed to talk about climate change? You just have no clue how it works, it's very different than military life.

    Climatologists aren't here to **** penguins, they're here to scare people and think things up.

    Sorry if that offends you, just the way it is.

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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    How does someone's sexual orientation impact their ability to serve our country? Can you please explain this to me?
    No, I cannot. Because you refuse to accept that it's not so much "their ability" as it is the effect on the morale and good order and dicipline that is at stake. To you, this is a civil rights issue, an unfair denail of service to good, honest hard working mena nd women being denied their right to serve their country because some homophobes can't handle the thought of gays serving in "their military".

    While I WON'T deny, there are hate filled homophobes out there that will never accept openly gay men and women in the service, that's not where the real issue lay, and never has to be honest. You refuse to address this, because to address this takes the argument from your carefully constructed world of "civil rights" and into reality.

    Reality check is, that such a move would have a net NEGATIVE impact on the services for an unforeseeable amount of adjustment time. It could take only a few years, or it could take a decade to get things under control. We just don't know.

    You say "Too bad, they just need to get over it" And part of me AGREES with you, however, having served and having an insight into the military mind being a third generation service member, I knwo that a lot of folks would have a very hard time adjusting to taking orders from a "man" that loves another man. It's JUST HOW IT IS.

    When you have to trust the person giving you orders, that your LIFE is on the line, distractions are not needed. People have to trust those above them. There WILL be a trust issue that will arise. There will be issues with good order and dicipline. There will be morale problems.

    Are those worth allowing what, 5% of the population the ability to openly serve gay or lesbian? When you tell me what the COMBAT benefit of allwoing Gays to openly serve is, then maybe we can get soemwhere.
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Well "mate" grunts like you have no say in what's going to happen, so I suppose we are safe.

    Still want to play? Or do you want to actually debate the issue?
    You can debate all you want on forums, in the end Military commanders run the military.

    But feel free to debate on things you do not know about and will never effect. be my guest.

  9. #109
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    How comes you are allowed to talk about climate change? You just have no clue how it works, it's very different than military life.

    Climatologists aren't here to **** penguins, they're here to scare people and think things up.

    Sorry if that offends you, just the way it is.
    Wait... do you mean that if you are NOT a climatologist you can't discuss climate change issue? Wow, that's certainly going to cause the Environmental Forum to have very few folks posting.

    You know what else? I guess that also means that if you are not a member of law enforcement, you have no right to discuss legal issues... I mean, you don't actually know what goes on there, so how could you discuss it?

    Do you people see how weak and cowardly this line of debate is? Being in the military may give you a different perspective, but it is not the ONLY perspective, nor does it eliminate others from discussing the topic... unless you have nothing else in your bag of tricks... no logic... to debate with.

    I suppose I should go around and eliminate from debate all those who are not members of a profession or have some expertise in the area in which they are debating. DP is about to become a very lonely place.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #110
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    Re: 2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    No, I cannot. Because you refuse to accept that it's not so much "their ability" as it is the effect on the morale and good order and dicipline that is at stake. To you, this is a civil rights issue, an unfair denail of service to good, honest hard working mena nd women being denied their right to serve their country because some homophobes can't handle the thought of gays serving in "their military".

    While I WON'T deny, there are hate filled homophobes out there that will never accept openly gay men and women in the service, that's not where the real issue lay, and never has to be honest. You refuse to address this, because to address this takes the argument from your carefully constructed world of "civil rights" and into reality.

    Reality check is, that such a move would have a net NEGATIVE impact on the services for an unforeseeable amount of adjustment time. It could take only a few years, or it could take a decade to get things under control. We just don't know.

    You say "Too bad, they just need to get over it" And part of me AGREES with you, however, having served and having an insight into the military mind being a third generation service member, I knwo that a lot of folks would have a very hard time adjusting to taking orders from a "man" that loves another man. It's JUST HOW IT IS.

    When you have to trust the person giving you orders, that your LIFE is on the line, distractions are not needed. People have to trust those above them. There WILL be a trust issue that will arise. There will be issues with good order and dicipline. There will be morale problems.

    Are those worth allowing what, 5% of the population the ability to openly serve gay or lesbian? When you tell me what the COMBAT benefit of allwoing Gays to openly serve is, then maybe we can get soemwhere.
    So your argument is that it will affect
    - morale
    - discipline

    Then let's try to understand why these things would be affected!

    - I don't see any possible effect on morale. Everyone knows that the US Defense forces are full of gays

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw"]YouTube- In the Navy[/nomedia]



    - Discipline? Do you think that there will be homophobic people who'll refuse to obey to orders of a gay? Then the same argument could be applied to exclude black people from the army!
    Last edited by bub; 02-25-10 at 04:52 AM.

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