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Navy will soon let women serve on subs

Tashah said:
I'm not about to go through this military gender crap with you again.

You have your viewpoint, I have my reality.

That your viewpoint doesn't mesh with my reality is your problem. Not mine.

I said what needed saying.

Now... back to the regularly scheduled program.
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As S-2 Air, where were you posted? Battalion? Brigade? CASO's don't hang with a line unit.
 
Blackdog said:
No one is saying a few could not do it. You are completely missing my point.

Please explain why the Israeli military removed females from combat units since 1950?
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But in 2007:

Combat service for women - Israel Culture, Ynetnews

The committee was appointed by the head of the human resources department Major-General Elazar Stern, and is set to give its recommendations in the next few days. Members of the committee ascertained that men and women will be assigned identical positions during their military service based on set criteria and the recruits' personal attributes, rather then gender. Namely, men and women will have equal opportunities throughout the military establishment.


Nontheless, assigning women to combat units will be based on professional and medical criteria. The duration of military service for men and women will be identical and in accordance with decisions pertaining to the period of service.


"There will be no units barred to women in the IDF because they are women," notes the report. Members of the committee have determined that only the defense minister will be able to decide whether a specific unit will be closed to women, and this includes all the combat units, battalions and elite units which are currently barred to women. ​
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Be specific.

Black men are men, and there's no sigificant biological differences between black men and white men.

Women aren't men and integrating them into the force requires adjustments to logistics and shipboard engineering. Especially on submarines.

What advantage is gained with the added expenditure and higher risk?
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That's not the way the Navy saw it during WWII:

"the enlistment of Negroes (other than as mess attendants) leads to disruptive and undermining conditions."

The Navy at first continued to insist on the exclusion of Negroes from general service, arguing that Negroes were not as adaptable or efficient as whites, and that segregation on shipboard was not feasible.
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Gina said:
But in 2007:

Combat service for women - Israel Culture, Ynetnews

The committee was appointed by the head of the human resources department Major-General Elazar Stern, and is set to give its recommendations in the next few days. Members of the committee ascertained that men and women will be assigned identical positions during their military service based on set criteria and the recruits' personal attributes, rather then gender. Namely, men and women will have equal opportunities throughout the military establishment.


Nontheless, assigning women to combat units will be based on professional and medical criteria. The duration of military service for men and women will be identical and in accordance with decisions pertaining to the period of service.


"There will be no units barred to women in the IDF because they are women," notes the report. Members of the committee have determined that only the defense minister will be able to decide whether a specific unit will be closed to women, and this includes all the combat units, battalions and elite units which are currently barred to women. ​
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But in 2010, still has not happened has it?
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
That's not the way the Navy saw it during WWII:
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Again you are talking about men? You can read what we are typing, correct?

Are you trying to say men and women are physically and emotionally the same?

You have still posted nothing at all. :roll:
 
Tashah said:
I'm not about to go through this military gender crap with you again.

You have your viewpoint, I have my reality.

That your viewpoint doesn't mesh with my reality is your problem. Not mine.

I said what needed saying.

Now... back to the regularly scheduled program.
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Yea, you got nothing. :roll:
 
Blackdog said:
Yea, you got nothing. :roll:
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Let's see, she is a woman, she is(was?) in the IDF, was in combat...I find her experiences relevant and credible.
 
Blackdog said:
Again you are talking about men? You can read what we are typing, correct?

Are you trying to say men and women are physically and emotionally the same?

You have still posted nothing at all. :roll:
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What part of them not being as adaptable or efficient as whites did you miss? or that segregation on board ship was not feasible?
 
Redress said:
Let's see, she is a woman, she is(was?) in the IDF, was in combat...I find her experiences relevant and credible.
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She was a staff member, not a serving line officer in a combat arms unit.

She admitted that she was the CASO. That isn't a line position.
 
Blackdog said:
But in 2010, still has not happened has it?
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Yes it has.


Bookmark and Share
Integration of women in the IDF
8 Mar 2009

In part: Integration of women in the IDF March 2009


There has been a clear trend of increase in the participation of women in the different military sectors. Today, women represent a third of all IDF soldiers, and can be deployed in 90 percent of all positions within the IDF. These statistics were published by the IDF Women’s Affairs Advisor, Brig. Gen. Yehudit Grissaro, on Sunday (March 8), in celebration of International Women's Day. Brig. Gen. Grissaro also announced that women represent 26 percent of all officers and 12 percent of all NCOs, and women are able to serve in 10 different combat positions.

Today women constitute 20% of career officers and 33% of compulsory service personnel, as opposed to 31% in 1995. In addition, there has been a moderate increase in the representation of women in every rank in the IDF. The percentage of women lieutenant colonels increased from 7% to 12.5%.

Women represent a significant portion of manpower in the combat units that they serve in; in the Anti-Aircraft Division and in the Artillery Corps, women represent 20 percent of soldiers, 25 percent of soldiers in Search and Rescue units, 10 percent of the Border Police, and the Caracal Battalion - a combat battalion - is made up of 70 percent female soldiers. In addition, this year marked the first year in which women are eligible to serve in the Field Intelligence Corps.​
 
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apdst said:
She was a staff member, not a serving line officer in a combat arms unit. She admitted that she was the CASO. That isn't a line position.
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Lol. What part of this did you not understand?

Tashah said:
M-4, Glock sidearm, comm links, and a laptop. Hoofing it with the grunts.
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Geez.
 
women are able to serve in 10 different combat positions.
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What are they calling a "combat position"?
 
apdst said:
What are they calling a "combat position"?
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Women represent a significant portion of manpower in the combat units that they serve in; in the Anti-Aircraft Division and in the Artillery Corps, women represent 20 percent of soldiers, 25 percent of soldiers in Search and Rescue units, 10 percent of the Border Police, and the Caracal Battalion - a combat battalion - is made up of 70 percent female soldiers. In addition, this year marked the first year in which women are eligible to serve in the Field Intelligence Corps.​

Are you suggesting they are mis-classified as combat positions?
 
Tashah said:
Lol. What part of this did you not understand?



Geez.
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Everybody at battalion and brigade has a weapon. No big deal. You said you were a CAS officer. Care to show us your order of battle and point out where CAS officers operate with line units? Thanks in advance.
 
Gina said:
Women represent a significant portion of manpower in the combat units that they serve in; in the Anti-Aircraft Division and in the Artillery Corps, women represent 20 percent of soldiers, 25 percent of soldiers in Search and Rescue units, 10 percent of the Border Police, and the Caracal Battalion - a combat battalion - is made up of 70 percent female soldiers. In addition, this year marked the first year in which women are eligible to serve in the Field Intelligence Corps.​

Are you suggesting they are mis-classified as combat positions?
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The US military has females serving in AAA units. A female serving in corps arty isn't exactly a combat position.

Just because a female serves in a, "combat unit", doesn't mean she is in a direct combat MOS, such as infantry, or armor, or sappers.
 
apdst said:
The US military has females serving in AAA units. A female serving in corps arty isn't exactly a combat position.

Just because a female serves in a, "combat unit", doesn't mean she is in a direct combat MOS, such as infantry, or armor, or sappers.
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They were forbidden to serve in these units until the report I posted above was submitted and put into practice. *sigh* So obviously, the IDF considered them to be combat positions before that.
 
Gina said:
They were forbidden to serve in these units until the report I posted above was submitted and put into practice. *sigh* So obviously, the IDF considered them to be combat positions before that.
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I'm only asking how the IDF defines a, "combat position". You can't help me with that?
 
Tashah said:
I'm not about to go through this military gender crap with you again.

You have your viewpoint, I have my reality.

That your viewpoint doesn't mesh with my reality is your problem. Not mine.

I said what needed saying.

Now... back to the regularly scheduled program.
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Wow...you 'weighed in' on a Military gender issue...he responded with a pretty potent dagger, and you respond by saying you arent going to get into a military/gender argument on a military/gender thread?

Wheres that CAS when you need it???
 
apdst said:
I'm only asking how the IDF defines a, "combat position". You can't help me with that?
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Unfortunately, the IDF doesn't post that definition. You of course can google for yourself, but as I said before, women were prohibited from these units until the recommendation were implemented.

Quibble if you would like though:


Women represent a significant portion of manpower in the combat units that they serve in; in the Anti-Aircraft Division and in the Artillery Corps, women represent 20 percent of soldiers, 25 percent of soldiers in Search and Rescue units, 10 percent of the Border Police, and the Caracal Battalion - a combat battalion - is made up of 70 percent female soldiers. In addition, this year marked the first year in which women are eligible to serve in the Field Intelligence Corps.​


The Border Police:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces]Israel Defense Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Other than the National Service (Sherut Leumi), IDF conscripts may serve in bodies other than the IDF in a number of ways. The combat option is Israel Border Police (Magav) service, part of the Israel Police. Some soldiers complete their IDF combat training and later undergo additional terror and Border Police training. These are assigned to Border Police units. The Border Police units fight side by side with the regular IDF combat units. They are also responsible for security in heavy urban areas such as Jerusalem.
 
apdst said:
The US military has females serving in AAA units. A female serving in corps arty isn't exactly a combat position.

Just because a female serves in a, "combat unit", doesn't mean she is in a direct combat MOS, such as infantry, or armor, or sappers.
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I dont think anyone is taking the position women shouldnt be in the military or that women shouldnt be allowed to do jobs that men do...just that the standards should be high...maintained high...and anyone...man or woman...that cant meet those standards should not be there.

Personally...I'd be fine with the women in the navy on the subs (I really didnt know they werent already). I do have a problem with women knowing they are up for deployment and rotation and ending up pregnant just before they are scheduled out.
 
Redress said:
Let's see, she is a woman, she is(was?) in the IDF, was in combat...I find her experiences relevant and credible.
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Which has little or nothing to do with anything I have said in this entire thread.

So, she got nothing.
 
Gina said:
Yes it has.


Bookmark and Share
Integration of women in the IDF
8 Mar 2009

In part: Integration of women in the IDF March 2009


There has been a clear trend of increase in the participation of women in the different military sectors. Today, women represent a third of all IDF soldiers, and can be deployed in 90 percent of all positions within the IDF. These statistics were published by the IDF Women’s Affairs Advisor, Brig. Gen. Yehudit Grissaro, on Sunday (March 8), in celebration of International Women's Day. Brig. Gen. Grissaro also announced that women represent 26 percent of all officers and 12 percent of all NCOs, and women are able to serve in 10 different combat positions.

Today women constitute 20% of career officers and 33% of compulsory service personnel, as opposed to 31% in 1995. In addition, there has been a moderate increase in the representation of women in every rank in the IDF. The percentage of women lieutenant colonels increased from 7% to 12.5%.

Women represent a significant portion of manpower in the combat units that they serve in; in the Anti-Aircraft Division and in the Artillery Corps, women represent 20 percent of soldiers, 25 percent of soldiers in Search and Rescue units, 10 percent of the Border Police, and the Caracal Battalion - a combat battalion - is made up of 70 percent female soldiers. In addition, this year marked the first year in which women are eligible to serve in the Field Intelligence Corps.​
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At presant no woman is serving in a combat arms style MOS in the IDF.
 
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