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Thread: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Porchev View Post
    The sleeping arrangements on a sub are one thing, but I don't buy into the argument that women are not physically able to handle it. Women are taking on roles throughout the military and seem to be handling it just fine.

    Some current military women; and some physically fit civilian ones too:





    Now lets take those same females, put them in full gear with a 100 pound ruck and a SAW with it's amunition on a 20 mile march.

    The medical evidence I have put forth says no.

    PS My sister was in the Air Force, she weighs all of 125 lbs. And no way in hell she could do it.

    PSS That last one on the beach is hooooot! I would be glad to carry her gear for her.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 02-27-10 at 04:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    It's not a bad comparison.
    Actually, yes it is.

    /argument
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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So let me get this straight.

    The standards have been lowered. You think this is wrong (as do I). So your solution is to exclude women altogether, rather than simply having a single standard. You want to stop complaints about discrimination...by imposing discrimination.

    Yeah, that makes sense.
    You are ignoring the reality of the situation. I am a realist.

    In any attempt at all in our nations history, period. Anytime a women has cried discrimination be it military or civilian, the overall standards have been reduced or just the standards for females.

    Those who do not remember the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

    Now if you would come up with an argument based on reality rather than insults or fantasy, we can get someplace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Now lets take those same females, put them in full gear with a 100 pound ruck and a SAW with it's amunition on a 20 mile march.

    The medical evidence I have put forth says no.

    PS My sister was in the Air Force, she weighs all of 125 lbs. And no way in hell she could do it.

    PS That last one on the beach is hooooot! I would be glad to carry her gear for her.

    Hail, I couldn't do that, not anymore. I'm 40-some and have developed knee problems.

    I was disqual'd for service due to hearing problems. I was disappointed, but those are the breaks. The military isn't about being fair to everyone and dispensing social justice, its about fighting wars.

    As long as the effectiveness of a given unit is not disrupted, let women serve in those capacities in which they are able to serve.

    However, I don't believe in lowering the standard for ANYONE. They didn't lower it for me (hearing requirements), so why lower it for anyone else?

    If a woman wants to be in the Infantry, she should have to meet the EXACT same requirements as any male infantryman. If she can, fine... if she can't, too bad.

    Bottom line to me is, the military needs to be a lean mean fighting machine. If women in service are not a problem, fine. If the vast majority can't cope with certain types (MOS) of service, like 11Bravo, oh well. We have to go with whatever the reality is, not what some people think it should be.

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Now lets take those same females, put them in full gear with a 100 pound ruck and a SAW with it's amunition on a 20 mile march.

    The medical evidence I have put forth says no.
    Who needs "medical evidence?"

    Put them in the gear and let them march. The ones who make it are in, the ones who don't are out. Just like the men.

    Pretty simple concept.

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Who needs "medical evidence?"

    Put them in the gear and let them march. The ones who make it are in, the ones who don't are out. Just like the men.

    Pretty simple concept.
    Continue to ignore the reality's of the differences physically between men and women.

    Who needs medical evidence.

    The standards would be reduced. What part of this are you not getting?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You are ignoring the reality of the situation. I am a realist.
    You're not even close to being a realist.

    In any attempt at all in our nations history, period. Anytime a women has cried discrimination be it military or civilian, the overall standards have been reduced or just the standards for females.

    Those who do not remember the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.
    Yes, so let's not reduce the standards next time. We can do whatever we want, you know.

    Now if you would come up with an argument based on reality rather than insults or fantasy, we can get someplace.
    I repeat - your solution to complaints about discrimination is...discrimination. That makes no sense. You want to make sense, right?

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Continue to ignore the reality's of the differences physically between men and women.

    Who needs medical evidence.

    The standards would be reduced. What part of this are you not getting?
    No, the standards would not be reduced.

    One standard. Let the women try. If any of them can do it, let those women in.

    What's so hard about that?

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    It's not a bad comparison.

    Some guys, including some of the tough guys on this thread, just can't handle the idea of women being strong. They really need to get their asses kicked by a woman, and they will do absolutely anything to avoid that. Including making some really twisted arguments.
    It's not a bad comparison, I agree.

    I wasn't so much comparing situations as comparing personal experiences. apdst was saying that women were crybabies because he'd been around a few that were. So, since I've been around men that were crybabies - in situations that according to some men here isn't as difficult as the military - I must conclude that men are crybabies and can't handle stress and fatigue the way women can. The fact that they consider what I'm talking about a 'vacation' only further proves my point.

    I mean, if sweeping generalizations based on extremely limited experience (by his own admission) works for apdst, then why can't sweeping generalizations based on extensive experience work for me?

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    Re: Navy will soon let women serve on subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Now lets take those same females, put them in full gear with a 100 pound ruck and a SAW with it's amunition on a 20 mile march.

    The medical evidence I have put forth says no.

    PS My sister was in the Air Force, she weighs all of 125 lbs. And no way in hell she could do it.

    PSS That last one on the beach is hooooot! I would be glad to carry her gear for her.
    Yet there are plenty of females out there doing just fine, for example Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester of the 617th Military Police Company, a National Guard unit out of Richmond, Ky:

    "Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester fought her way through an enemy ambush south of Baghdad, killing three insurgents with her M-4 rifle to save fellow soldiers' lives -- and yesterday became the first woman since World War II to win the Silver Star medal for valor in combat."
    Soldier Earns Silver Star for Her Role in Defeating Ambush - washingtonpost.com
    Last edited by Porchev; 02-27-10 at 04:28 PM.

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